Abortion

[Kuribotchi]

(Warning: This is slighty graphic)

Also Go-Gozarutchi, that's poor reasoning. If you know you have a child in your womb, and that if you do nothing about it the chances are it'll most likely get born, and then the mother decides to kill this child-to-b don't you think that's wrong.

It's preventing it from having a life.

It's murder since you prevent it from becoming a child, which it definitely will become.

wouldn't that mean that the two hundred million sperm that don't make it to the female's egg are all murdered by the female's system?

Up to two hundred million sperm do not make it to the egg.

That means in some cases one million nine hundred thousand nine hundred and ninety nine sperm could of become a child. The fetus is no more alive then the sperm is.

You could say that masturbation is also murder, just as pro-life people think that abortion is murder. You could argue, "stop the masturbation", but then nocturnal emission (wet dream) would find it's way in the general age group that are participating in fertilization.

 

[dazzilitchigirl]

(Warning: This is slighty graphic)

Up to two hundred million sperm do not make it to the egg.

That means in some cases one million nine hundred thousand nine hundred and ninety nine sperm could of become a child. The fetus is no more alive then the sperm is.

You could say that masturbation is also murder, just as pro-life people think that abortion is murder. You could argue, "stop the masturbation", but then nocturnal emission (wet dream) would find it's way in the general age group that are participating in fertilization.

The foetus is more alive than the sperm. The sperm and the egg each contain half a set of DNA, and when that DNA is put together, it becomes a unique, living thing. That's why most vegetarians are fine to eat unfertilised chicken eggs, but not fertilised ones. An unfertilised egg or sperm will never become a living thing. A fertilised one will.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

(Warning: This is slighty graphic)

Up to two hundred million sperm do not make it to the egg.

That means in some cases one million nine hundred thousand nine hundred and ninety nine sperm could of become a child. The fetus is no more alive then the sperm is.

You could say that masturbation is also murder, just as pro-life people think that abortion is murder. You could argue, "stop the masturbation", but then nocturnal emission (wet dream) would find it's way in the general age group that are participating in fertilization.

This is a wrong comparasent since there's nothing you could do for the "lost" sperm to turn into a child. But when it is defenitly becoming a child and you kill it then, you are preventing it from living it's life(if it survives chirlbirth ofcourse).

 

[Jokus]

The foetus is more alive than the sperm. The sperm and the egg each contain half a set of DNA, and when that DNA is put together, it becomes a unique, living thing. That's why most vegetarians are fine to eat unfertilised chicken eggs, but not fertilised ones. An unfertilised egg or sperm will never become a living thing. A fertilised one will.

This

 

[under-†he-bleachers]

I'm pro-life.

There are a lot of good arguments on either side of the spectrum, so I understand the views of those of you that are pro-choice, but I think that if I were to get an abortion it would bother me forever that I got rid of a baby.

 

[Swan_Song]

Okay, I'm just going to put in my two cents (this is coming from a 20 year old female college student, to clarify who I am).

Even if abortion were to be banned, women would still have them done anyway, but in far less sanitary and safe circumstances. That means that not only would the baby die, but in some cases, so could the mother.

It's the same with trying to ban premarital sex: people will still do it anyway. There are laws in place that ban murder, robbery, arson--and guess what? People still do all of those things.

It would be nearly impossible to monitor every single unmarried person to see if they were or weren't having sex.

And what right do I have to tell someone what they can and can not do with their body? None. I can only be held responsible for my choices, not for the choices of someone else. I can give advice, but it isn't my life.

And here's another thing people don't understand: You can't be sure what you would do unless you were in that situation.

I can say "Oh yeah, if I were raped and got pregnant, I would just put the baby up for adoption" all I want. But that's coming from the standpoint that I haven't been in that situation. What if that happened to me? I don't know what I would actually do in that situation. So why should I force other people into an opinion when I haven't experienced it myself?

And what if it happened to be someone I loved who got into a bad situation? I would want them to make the decision that they feel is best for them.

I'm not saying I like abortion, not at all, actually. But as a woman who has never been in a tough situation like that, I feel I have no right to tell someone else what they can and can't do.

 

[Swan_Song]

(Ew, double post! Sorry about that!)

 

[GO-GOZARUTCHI1]

@Swan_song that is very wise, I see exactly what your saying! A woman should have the right to do what she wants to do to her body, no one should be able to control her like that.

 

[Amat Gotchi]

Okay, I'm just going to put in my two cents (this is coming from a 20 year old female college student, to clarify who I am).

Even if abortion were to be banned, women would still have them done anyway, but in far less sanitary and safe circumstances. That means that not only would the baby die, but in some cases, so could the mother.

It's the same with trying to ban premarital sex: people will still do it anyway. There are laws in place that ban murder, robbery, arson--and guess what? People still do all of those things.

It would be nearly impossible to monitor every single unmarried person to see if they were or weren't having sex.

And what right do I have to tell someone what they can and can not do with their body? None. I can only be held responsible for my choices, not for the choices of someone else. I can give advice, but it isn't my life.

And here's another thing people don't understand: You can't be sure what you would do unless you were in that situation.

I can say "Oh yeah, if I were raped and got pregnant, I would just put the baby up for adoption" all I want. But that's coming from the standpoint that I haven't been in that situation. What if that happened to me? I don't know what I would actually do in that situation. So why should I force other people into an opinion when I haven't experienced it myself?

And what if it happened to be someone I loved who got into a bad situation? I would want them to make the decision that they feel is best for them.

I'm not saying I like abortion, not at all, actually. But as a woman who has never been in a tough situation like that, I feel I have no right to tell someone else what they can and can't do.

Exactly. In one of my previous posts, I mentioned a relative who got an illegal abortion (since abortion wasn't legal at the time) by the local mortician, and was reproductively incapacitated for the rest of her life.

Abortions will happen whether they're legal or not, as will other things like premarital sex. If it's legal, it allows people to choose what is right (or wrong) of their own accord, which is, if you think about it, the correct thing. A brave person will choose what is right, but you can't expect a panicked person to be punished for something that is not entirely their fault.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

Is it wrong to advice a pregnant lady to not kill her child? Any option is better than murder.

If it just should be allowed because it will be done anyway the same counts for murder.

So that argument is invalid.

 

[Jhud]

Abortion would be like smoking. I something bad happens, it's for one's consequences and nobody else should put their nose into it. I know it involves an unborn child, but I would really much rather be aborted as a fetus than live either with someone who doesn't love me at all or with someone who isn't even my real parent.

Also, Hitler's mother's doctor told her to abort her baby, but she refused... In that situation you probably wish it happened, huh.

Also, still, no uterus, no opinion. Period. (... is it even called a pun what I just made?)

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

Abortion would be like smoking. I something bad happens, it's for one's consequences and nobody else should put their nose into it. I know it involves an unborn child, but I would really much rather be aborted as a fetus than live either with someone who doesn't love me at all or with someone who isn't even my real parent.

Also, Hitler's mother's doctor told her to abort her baby, but she refused... In that situation you probably wish it happened, huh.

Also, still, no uterus, no opinion. Period. (... is it even called a pun what I just made?)

You might want to be aborted, I not. I'd rather have a miserable life, then not exist and I'm pretty sure you probably too.

Also, you never can know if a child is going to grow up as a nice/bad/awesome/happy person, and because of your ignorance you have no right to kill anyone. And then again, who are you to decide if a bad person deserves death.

I do not wish that the mother of Hitler would have aborted him. That would make her as bad as him.

He might deserve to die, but not when he hasn't lived yet, and also not by our decision.

 

[Jokus]

I know it involves an unborn child, but I would really much rather be aborted as a fetus than live either with someone who doesn't love me at all or with someone who isn't even my real parent.

I completely agree with Stefan. Just because you'd rather not be born doesn't mean it goes for all of us.

I'm rather miserable in life than dead.

Also, Hitler's mother's doctor told her to abort her baby, but she refused... In that situation you probably wish it happened, huh.

What is your point in saying this? That all women should abort/kill their children because they might become evil and murder millions?

 

[dazzilitchigirl]

My problem isn't with abortion really. My problem is with the fact that people who have had adequate sex education still have unprotected sex, get pregnant and ask for an abortion. Children, teenagers and some young adults are unable to make good decisions, so they should not be allowed to have sex under any circumstances. Not by law, by household rules. Parents can stop their children eating junk food, watching TV, not doing their homework or not brushing their teeth, but in some strange way they can't stop them having sex. I'm not a parent but I believe it's possible to make sure your daughter doesn't get pregnant.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

My problem isn't with abortion really. My problem is with the fact that people who have had adequate sex education still have unprotected sex, get pregnant and ask for an abortion. Children, teenagers and some young adults are unable to make good decisions, so they should not be allowed to have sex under any circumstances. Not by law, by household rules. Parents can stop their children eating junk food, watching TV, not doing their homework or not brushing their teeth, but in some strange way they can't stop them having sex. I'm not a parent but I believe it's possible to make sure your daughter doesn't get pregnant.

I'm pretty sure I live in the right place then, since I have a lot of siblings and none of them is pregnant yet. You must educate your children to become controlled, educated people and I'm pretty sure that'll be a big help.

If it's disallowed by law, this will help too, since it'll be a lot harder to keep like that something secret, so people will normally decide to wait till they're married.

However for me "protected sex" is not the solution. People should learn that having sex and getting pregnant is together, and shouldn't learn that it's normal to want the one thing but not the other.

Normally when you're married you can take care of children that might come so I don't see a reason to prevent pregnancy, besides that you may have an illness or something.

 

[dazzilitchigirl]

I'm pretty sure I live in the right place then, since I have a lot of siblings and none of them is pregnant yet. You must educate your children to become controlled, educated people and I'm pretty sure that'll be a big help.

If it's disallowed by law, this will help too, since it'll be a lot harder to keep like that something secret, so people will normally decide to wait till they're married.

However for me "protected sex" is not the solution. People should learn that having sex and getting pregnant is together, and shouldn't learn that it's normal to want the one thing but not the other.

Normally when you're married you can take care of children that might come so I don't see a reason to prevent pregnancy, besides that you may have an illness or something.

It is normal to want one thing but not the other, though. People want to eat quite a bit, but don't want to gain weight. Sometimes, people do want to gain weight, if they're underweight. That doesn't mean you shouldn't eat at all, it just means you should eat a limited amount. I think it's like that with sex. People get pleasure from it and it helps couples bond, but it also leads to pregnancy if you're not careful.

Married people may not want children. They might both have jobs, and couldn't take care of a baby during the day. Employing a babysitter would cost them money, and they could end up doing badly financially. I know that my parents only tried to have their first child (me) when one worked at home and the other didn't work at all.

 

[Mamapatchi]

DELETE THIS POST.

IT IS A DOUBLE :B.

 

[Mamapatchi]

I'm pretty sure I live in the right place then, since I have a lot of siblings and none of them is pregnant yet. You must educate your children to become controlled, educated people and I'm pretty sure that'll be a big help.

If it's disallowed by law, this will help too, since it'll be a lot harder to keep like that something secret, so people will normally decide to wait till they're married.

However for me "protected sex" is not the solution. People should learn that having sex and getting pregnant is together, and shouldn't learn that it's normal to want the one thing but not the other.

Normally when you're married you can take care of children that might come so I don't see a reason to prevent pregnancy, besides that you may have an illness or something.

It is normal to want one thing but not the other. Have you heard of casual sex? Just because most religions says its immoral to have sex without wanting children, it is widely practiced.

Protected sex is the solution. If people learn to have sex protected, the whole problem of abortion because of an unwanted child will be over.

 

[Amat Gotchi]

I'm pretty sure I live in the right place then, since I have a lot of siblings and none of them is pregnant yet. You must educate your children to become controlled, educated people and I'm pretty sure that'll be a big help.

If it's disallowed by law, this will help too, since it'll be a lot harder to keep like that something secret, so people will normally decide to wait till they're married.

However for me "protected sex" is not the solution. People should learn that having sex and getting pregnant is together, and shouldn't learn that it's normal to want the one thing but not the other.

Normally when you're married you can take care of children that might come so I don't see a reason to prevent pregnancy, besides that you may have an illness or something.

Excuse me, it doesn't seem like you understand what "by law" means. But maybe I'm misunderstanding what you said.

If premarital sex is disallowed by law, that would amount to a somewhat totalitarian government. It would mean that people who had sex outside of marriage would be thrown in jail.

As much as premarital sex might be wrong, or cause problems, it really isn't hurting anyone physically or emotionally (the part of premarital sex that hurts people emotionally is when people start fighting afterward). And not all people find it morally wrong; it's kind of subjective whether it is or not. If you are truly in love with someone, I think it's ok to have sex with them if (even if you aren't married) if you are truly emotionally ready and use protection. If someone thinks it's wrong to have sex, they shouldn't do it.

Having premarital sex be disallowed by law would not be ideal because:

1. How would you be able to tell if that law was broken? A questionnaire saying, "Have you had sex before marriage? Check yes or no. If you check yes, you will go to prison and/or pay an exorbitant fine"? I doubt that would really work.

2. In this world filled with true crime, haven't our law enforcement officials got better things to do than throw people in prison for engaging in a natural human activity?

In my opinion, the best way to prevent the necessity of abortion (which I really am against on principle but would not have illegalized for reasons I have previously mentioned) would include better sex ed, better parenting (parents should tell their children about how sex works), publicly available birth control, and promotion (but not forcing) of abstinence.

That said, I do agree with you that people should really look before they leap when it comes to sex. Sex has become more and more meaningless, something done "for fun" rather than for love. That's because the concept of sex is used to sell things, allure people, and burrow its way into society, much to many people's (including my own) chagrin.

And that parents should teach their children about the goods of abstinence from sex, but also about the importance of birth control if they do choose to have sex. You'd be surprised how many parents are not as good about that as your own.

Encourage abstinence, not force it.

 

[Swan_Song]

Is it wrong to advice a pregnant lady to not kill her child? Any option is better than murder.

If it just should be allowed because it will be done anyway the same counts for murder.

So that argument is invalid.

*Is it wrong to advise

I didn't say it was wrong to not give advice. But the thing is, just because I give someone advice doesn't mean I can force them into having the baby. I can't stay by their side 24/7 and watch them at all hours and make sure they don't have the baby. Giving advice is different from forcing my opinion on them.

And the fact that it will happen anyway isn't the big issue. The fact that they will happen in UNSAFE conditions is the main problem. You will have women going to "doctors" to get the problem taken care of.

I was recently in a production of a show where a character had a back-alley abortion because at that time abortion was illegal. She died because the conditions were unsanitary, the person performing the abortion untrained. Things like that happen all the time to women.

I'm not saying that I advocate getting an abortion. What I'm saying is that women need to have full rights over their bodies.