Abortion: Your view on it

[phobo]

I think it's the mother's choice, up to a point. Like, I don't think that doing it after 5 months is ok, but I think that after 5 weeks It'd be fine. Also, if the father is willing to take care of the baby, then he should be allowed to. I would probably never have an abortion, but I think it should be an option.

 

[bratztroxg]

Yes, there is a baby growing in the mother's body but since when did we call anything else 'our body' that didn't have our DNA?
I believe that life starts at fertilization. This growing child has a totally unique DNA sequence that can never be reproduced again.

Maybe it's an 'inconvenience' to have a child but when has that excuse ever made things okay? I think life is a beautiful gift and they deserve the chance to live because they may be growing in their mother's womb but it's their body ultimately.

What about a baby already born? Why is abortion different than the girl in the bathroom at the middle school who killed her baby by trying to flush it down the toilet? It's still killing a life just because the baby would 'inconvenience the mother'.

I mean, if we can kill our own children simply because they can't defend themselves, I ask what's stopping us from doing it to the elderly or the handicapped. Sure, they're already out of the womb but 'they are an inconvenience' and 'can't talk care of themselves' and 'are dependant on others'. What's different?

Some people don't necessarily agree with abortion but want it to remain legal - maybe 'ignorance is bliss' but personally I'm going to fight for life because I think it's worth it.

If you want to see what abortion really is, go to www.abort73.com. Obviously it's against abortion but it tells the hard cold truth about abortion. Especially if you're against it, at least you have to know the 'opposing view' so I challenge you to visit the site. ^_^

You put up some excellent points there, tamaw/pants! I am still working out my definite opinion on abortion. I am a Christian, and although the Bible doesn't specifically mention this subject, it really is a big deal, and quite literally a matter of life-or-death.

The baby in the womb does have a right to life, and shouldn't be murdered forever. But sometimes a raped 13-year-old cannot live through childbirth, and it is very dangerous to force the child to go through with it. I am against abortion except when rape happens, which puts up more of a problem.

Because yes, the baby has a right to life and owns it's own body, but so does the mother! Is a 13 year old ready to cope with childbirth? What if it becomes obvious that she will die during childbirth? By making abortion illegal, the 13 year old mother-to-be has been given a death sentence, just as much as the child.

Just some points to think about. :furawatchi:

~bratztroxg

 

[TigerLily013]

Yeah, rape is an extremely hard subject because it wasn't the mother's fault to have sex. :furawatchi:
But I believe that even in a rape, this child still deserves life. Does an abortion heal the woman, broken by a horrendous act of of a despicable man? No - it may stop the growth of the person growing inside but all it does is continue the vicious cycle of killing and breaking of the soul. It wasn't this baby's fault for the rape, either, was it? And there are psychological as well as physical effects, too, that can pain the mother for the rest of her life.

Plus, I will add that the percentages of abortions due to rape is less than 3% which if that was the only reason to keep abortions legal, is not that much at all.

Also I believe another exception that people pro life would consider is genetic issues. Mind you I know that sounds awful but just listen for a second.

Saw a lady interviewed on 20/20 one friday night who had to have 2abortions (1 happened naturally as a miscarriage but it's still the body aborting the baby).

Anyway it wasn't rape, but she has this condition in her body (the name of the problem escapes me right now) but when she gets pregnant if the baby is of male gender, it will miscarry and die every time...comparing to a female child who will go full term no issues. Her first child technically was a boy and it miscarried and it was extremely heartbreaking and really hit her emotionally. Obviously we can't really understand such pain and loss unless we lose our child like that. Her second child she conceived was a girl so as I said 100% fine no problems.

When she got pregnant again, it was a boy again and she was told as it happened before it won't go to full term, before the 3 month mark it would terminate itself (which would be quicker mind you than her first unborn son who did it at 6 instead of the 3 month mark but still will suck). She didn't want to go through with that emotional stuff again so she dealt with it before it could terminate itself.

In a case like that where you know the child isn't gonna even make it due to a weird genetic condition the mother has, abortion's gonna happen either naturally or otherwise. For her there was no way around it.

After the interview they said she had another baby girl and had another male baby miscarriage.

Just an odd story regarding this topic I felt like sharing.

 

[DemonSlayer5050]

Yeah, rape is an extremely hard subject because it wasn't the mother's fault to have sex.
But I believe that even in a rape, this child still deserves life. Does an abortion heal the woman, broken by a horrendous act of of a despicable man? No - it may stop the growth of the person growing inside but all it does is continue the vicious cycle of killing and breaking of the soul. It wasn't this baby's fault for the rape, either, was it? And there are psychological as well as physical effects, too, that can pain the mother for the rest of her life.

Plus, I will add that the percentages of abortions due to rape is less than 3% which if that was the only reason to keep abortions legal, is not that much at all.

I am pro-choice and i do wanna say something real quick:

the sad part is, if a woman was raped and she does end up having the baby, she secretly doesn't love it, but thinks of it as a reminder of the rape. I know most likely not all women are like this, but definatly some are. They may even do something bad for the child. so think about that real quick

 

[TamaMum]

What I'm saying is that if you believe it's murder, I don't understand how you would let it remain legal. If you believe that murder should remain illegal because it's wrong but then say mother can decided to kill her child, believe that abortion is murder as well, I can't see the reasoning.

Yeah, the reasoning is difficult and it is never simple but I will try to explain things based on my personal beliefs.

I define murder as the unlawful killing of another human person. I believe that it is wrong and should be illegal.

But I don't believe it is murder to abort an embryo or foetus - up to a certain number of weeks of gestation - because it is not yet what I (or the law or science) defines as a human person.

Therefore I don't believe that a woman is murdering anything if she chooses to abort an embryo or foetus (up to a certain number of weeks) she is carrying.

However, I totally support and respect your right to believe that life starts at fertilisation.

I just believe that human life starts when the foetus is at a later stage in its development. That's is why I don't define abortion as murder.

I believe that everyone should have the right to their religious beliefs, but I don't believe that a secular government should implement laws based on religious beliefs that over-ride basic civil rights.

If I lived in a country where Religious Law (Jewish Halakha, Catholic Canon law, Islamic Sharia law for example) was in force, I would have to abide by those laws or move to another country.

But I don't live in a country that implements it's laws based on what it's religion believes is right or wrong. I live in a country with a secular government which makes the laws based on moral right and wrong (and so does much of the Western world).

There are definitely very similar doctrines between moral right and wrong and many religious beliefs - but I do not believe that a law should be passed based on religious belief.

I hope that goes some way to explaining my reasoning.

In truth, I think it is good to have a profound religious conviction. I don't think it is so good to force others under law to follow the same religious principals.

 

[tamaw/pants]

Yeah, the reasoning is difficult and it is never simple but I will try to explain things based on my personal beliefs.
I define murder as the unlawful killing of another human person.  I believe that it is wrong and should be illegal.

But I don't believe it is murder to abort an embryo or foetus - up to a certain number of weeks of gestation - because it is not yet what I (or the law or science) defines as a human person. 

Therefore I don't believe that a woman is murdering anything if she chooses to abort an embryo or foetus (up to a certain number of weeks) she is carrying.

However, I totally support and respect your right to believe that life starts at fertilisation. 

I just believe that human life starts when the foetus is at a later stage in its development.  That's is why I don't define abortion as murder.

I believe that everyone should have the right to their religious beliefs, but I don't believe that a secular government should implement laws based on religious beliefs that over-ride basic civil rights.

If I lived in a country where Religious Law (Jewish Halakha, Catholic Canon law, Islamic Sharia law for example) was in force, I would have to abide by those laws or move to another country.

But I don't live in a country that implements it's laws based on what it's religion believes is right or wrong.  I live in a country with a secular government which makes the laws based on moral right and wrong (and so does much of the Western world).

There are definitely very similar doctrines between moral right and wrong and many religious beliefs - but I do not believe that a law should be passed based on religious belief.

I hope that goes some way to explaining my reasoning.

In truth, I think it is good to have a profound religious conviction.  I don't think it is so good to force others under law to follow the same religious principals.

Yeah, I get that.

But if you did believe it was murder and still said it should be legal, that'd be different, wouldn't it? If someone says abortion is equal to murder and they believe murder is wrong, how can you be pro-choice?

Ack, it's hard to explain. Like what you said, you don't believe that they are technically a person yet so abortion to a point is fine. But if you believed it was actually murder but then said though it should still be illegal because it's okay for others not for yourself, then how could you possible be for both?

Going on the basis that abortion=murder: I would never kill someone and think that's wrong but it'd be like me saying that it shouldn't be illegal - it should be that person's choice to do so.

It seems more like it's either murder and should be outlawed or not murder it's okay for whoever wants it. Not, I think it's murder but if someone else does it, that's okay too.

* BTW - just to clear up confusion, when I say you I don't mean you specifically - you as others in general ;] *

 

[TDF]

I think she should have her choice.

It's her body.

She makes her own decisions.

 

[Cinderpelt]

Just curious what you think - what about the father? In your opinion, if the father wants to keep the child he helped in creating, does he have any say?
And, I totally understand where you're coming from but it's kind of like if the U.S. during the Holocaust said 'well, as long as we in the U.S. aren't killing Jews because some think they're are not humans, then that's there choice and their desicion. We won't support it but eh, fine by us. Not worth getting involved and fighting to end even though we're against it'.

Cetch my drift?

Yeah, it's the father's choice too. That's a great point you're making there. It's the couple's descision what they want to do. If they're still a couple. -meep-

Ughh. Not the Holocaust. D: It always makes me cry. It's something that I find very moving. I do see your point there.

On these kinds of subjects, I just like to stay open-minded and kinda... well, out of them. I don't usually fight for things one way or whatever. I do what I feel is right but don't try to push anyone else.

I do see where you're coming from tw/p. Wonderful points you're making. You could probably be a lawyer or something someday, as you're making it harder for me to stay where I am on the subject. I keep wanting to say that I'm completely against abortion, though I'm not.

 

[Self:.:Pity]

And, I totally understand where you're coming from but it's kind of like if the U.S. during the Holocaust said 'well, as long as we in the U.S. aren't killing Jews because some think they're are not humans, then that's there choice and their desicion. We won't support it but eh, fine by us. Not worth getting involved and fighting to end even though we're against it'.

You do know that is what happened, right?

We didn't really get into the war until the attack on Pearl Harbor pushed us into it- we were not going to do a danged thing about it until that happened.

You know what? Jews actually came here by the boatload to get away from Germany, and we sent them back. We actually had a group plead refugee to us in hopes they could stay- we sent them back, they died. People would throw their babies int he water in hopes that our US soldiers would break form and save them. Our US soldiers were ordered to stay still, and they did.

We had a sort of repression of our own- Japanese and Japanese-American, up to four generations, were forced family by family into horse stables for a living. Not as bad- but still repression.

-backontopic-

I am Pro-choice, because once you start telling people what they can and cannot do, whats to stop you from going to far?

AndIdontlikekids but thats not the point.

Besides- And I read that abort73 website- when your raped your raped, and the kid is a burden to bear. I wouldnt keep it-

I dont know anyone who would.

 

[kawaii-cat]

I sort of think that only women who were raped, etc. should only be aloud to have an abortion, it isn't their fault at all that they became pregnant.

But I think that women who go out and get crazy and become pregnantXP and want an abortion can't, they should suffer the consequences

 

[rachel3802]

Tamaw/Pants:

Oh. My. Gosh.

You are AMAZING at Debating. Espically contraversial topics like this! ^^

-----------

On a side note:

Abortion IS mentioned in the Bible to SOME extent:

Thou shall not kill.

Simple as that.

 

[Trainwreck]

Personally, I believe abortion is okay, to a certain point. If the mom is perfectly fit, has no problems, is able to take care of the baby and aborts it, thats wrong. But imagine a young girl getting pregnant, having a child is stressfull and some people can't handle it. If its a teen mother who can't take care of it, has some kind of problems at home, and knows the environment shes in just isn't fit for a child and aborts it, I'm perfectly fine with that. Sure its sad but you have to see it from the mother's eyes.

 

[redtama]

Yeah, it's the father's choice too. That's a great point you're making there. It's the couple's descision what they want to do. If they're still a couple. -meep-
Ughh. Not the Holocaust. D: It always makes me cry. It's something that I find very moving. I do see your point there.

On these kinds of subjects, I just like to stay open-minded and kinda... well, out of them. I don't usually fight for things one way or whatever. I do what I feel is right but don't try to push anyone else.

I do see where you're coming from tw/p. Wonderful points you're making. You could probably be a lawyer or something someday, as you're making it harder for me to stay where I am on the subject. I keep wanting to say that I'm completely against abortion, though I'm not.

Hm. You make an excellent point..

I think abortion is fair...I mean,think about those teenage pregnancies. What if, the girl cannot afford a house,crib or anything? Then what?

And if you were raped, I guess you could either have an abortion or put it up for adoption...

But I don't say abortion is "So great, every woman should jump on the band wagon".

I'm just saying, its an option, but an option frowned apon by many.

But in justice of my own gender, women should have the choice.Not the public's choice.

Is the public carrying this baby? No. I mean, if you don't have any problems w/ family, your husband[Or boyfriend] or your current state[As in stress]...Sure, have the baby, as long as you have time to take care of it or hire a nanny.

kawaii-cat:

"But I think that women who go out and get crazy and become pregnant XP and want an abortion can't, they should suffer the consequences."

I see your trying to make a point, but any woman can have an abortion, even if she was raped or just wanted to have sex.

And not ALL women are crazy and become pregnant. Some will have protected sex with their boyfriend/husband...And they get pregnant. How do you call that crazy? That was accidental. And i'm not trying to sound rude, I'm just making a point, as you are.

But, I sort of disagree with the whole post you posted. Why should women who were raped only have an abortion? How fair is that? What if a teenage girl cannot afford anything for her baby? Theres always a " What if " in life, not everything will go as planned or wanted.

Trainwreck:

100% agreed.

 

[NeverEnding A.B.Y.S.S.]

One person can make a complete difference in the world.

Did you know; Hitler's mother was going to have an abortion, but her doctor talked her out of it?

Of course, that's the bad side, one person can change the world, and that one person, could be the victim of abortion.

The world could be a different place right now.

It's the mothers choice, so many circumstances.

Being that my neighbor is a rapist, and how young I am, it would be extremely unlikely I would live, therefor no matter how much I am against it, I would get an abortion.

So many choices.

 

[rachel3802]

NeverEnding ABYSS-

Great Point.

I would most likely die, considering I am only 12.

So I, Would have an Abortion.

I would feel sorry for the rest of my life, but at least I will still be alive.

 

[NeverEnding A.B.Y.S.S.]

NeverEnding ABYSS-Great Point.

I would most likely die, considering I am only 12.

So I, Would have an Abortion.

I would feel sorry for the rest of my life, but at least I will still be alive.

My point, exactly.

 

[tamaw/pants]

Die? Not necessarily. I mean, sure their chance, but the earliest mother was 5 and she survived.

I mean, how do you think the young women in Africa have children? A lot of them are are only 12, 14, 16 and get married off to people old enough to be their grandparent! And they still reproduce. Many probably do die or lose the baby because of lack of medical treatment but we have that available here.

What about when people only lived till about 40 and so they got married at 12 or 14 during a time they travelled in covered wagons across the U.S.? They didn't have much medical treatment, either.

If you're body is mature enough to conceive, it can handle birthing. Not all the time, of course because you aren't done growing in developing in all cases, but it's not a death sentence.

 

[NeverEnding A.B.Y.S.S.]

I'm a small person, I have regular spells of dizziness, and points where if I get up to fast, I fall to the ground and my eyes ache, and I cannot see.

I'm not sure I could deal with all of that on a daily basis, as well as a child.

I understand what you mean, but for me, it's unlikely to be possible. Even with the best doctors, I just have to many problems with myself as it is.

 

[rachel3802]

-nod-

I can hardly take care of myself properly T_T.

I'm Less then 5'0, and weigh less than 80 Lbs.

If I had a C-section, Then yes TW/P. I may survive.

The youngest mother had a C section.

I wouldn't be able to handle natural birth though.

 

[bratztroxg]

Die? Not necessarily. I mean, sure their chance, but the earliest mother was 5 and she survived.
I mean, how do you think the young women in Africa have children? A lot of them are are only 12, 14, 16 and get married off to people old enough to be their grandparent! And they still reproduce. Many probably do die or lose the baby because of lack of medical treatment but we have that available here.

What about when people only lived till about 40 and so they got married at 12 or 14 during a time they travelled in covered wagons across the U.S.? They didn't have much medical treatment, either.

If you're body is mature enough to conceive, it can handle birthing. Not all the time, of course because you aren't done growing in developing in all cases, but it's not a death sentence.

Exactly. There's a chance, and we have a choice to stop it.

Put yourself in a 12 year old girl's position. Normal life, normal friends, normal family, maybe a boyfriend, normal schooling, etc. Then one day you are raped. I wouldn't be able to deal with that!! I'd recover over time, but not if I knew I would have to go through childbirth, and raising a child when I was still a child myself. After the stress and emotional harm of rape, childbirth is the last thing you need! Especially when you're giving birth to a child you did not choose to have and may not even love.

Girls should have the choice. It's their life, their bodies, their choice.