Abortion

[Stefan Bauwens]

Hmm...

This is probably going to sound rough, but I'm not intending to be rude:

If a person(age doesn't matter) wants to commit suicide for certain reasons, you are against it but you still feel it's his own choice?

Is this the same way you feel about abortion?

 

[Midorime]

I know I stated the first question before (or thought I did) but it was mostly for those who hadn't answered it yet.

If a person(age doesn't matter) wants to commit suicide for certain reasons, you are against it but you still feel it's his own choice?

In a way I still think its a choice. Someone wants to kill themselves--well okay. What can i really do about that? I can't make them not do it. I can't tie them up and throw them in a room and say "No! You're not going to end yourself!" If they are super determined to do it, they will find a way. For example where my uncle works, a ward for the convicted mentally ill, they find all sorts of ways to end themselves. Someone tried just a few weeks ago, and now it's costing the people their privacy walls in their dorms. Measures are taken to try to proof everything, from furniture to air vents to even doorknobs, to try to prevent the people from killing themselves or getting hurt or hurting others, but they're so determined and crafty that they always seem to find a way.

No matter how hard you try, how much you beg, plead, threaten... you can't ever change a person's mind if they are dead set on doing what they want to do. Period. So yes, it is their choice. Doesn't mean it may be a good one or bad one or whatever, it's a choice the other person makes and we cannot change that. Trust me, even if you try everything possible to stop them, they will find a way.

 

[TamaMum]

Hmm...

This is probably going to sound rough, but I'm not intending to be rude:

If a person(age doesn't matter) wants to commit suicide for certain reasons, you are against it but you still feel it's his own choice?

Is this the same way you feel about abortion?

I think this statement has great potential to be misunderstood but I don't think you have made it difficult to understand intentionally.

I'm not even sure if I have understood your question

Is it about believing someone must have the choice to decide on having an abortion under certain circumstances or not?

You have explained to us all before that it depends on the circumstances.

If that certain "reason" for an abortion is because both mother and baby will die, you support an abortion under those certain well defined circumstances, right?

But do you believe that the mother should have a choice? Should she be allowed to either consent to an abortion or die along with her baby in childbirth?

Should someone else (the law, for example) make that decision for her?

(also trying to keep the focus on the topic in question - Pro-Choice/Pro-Life & Abortion, rather than Suicide)

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

The reason for that question was to figure out if Amat Gotchi is actually against abortion in the same sense like most(I hope) people are against suicide, but don't really have any control over it, since they're going to find a way anyway.

It's just because her last post made it look like that, but what I can remember from her other posts it isn't like that.

I think that in that situation the mother should still have the choice to say no to abortion, for example: say God told her that they're both going to survive anyway(doctors aren't always right), I think she has the right to say no.

Ofcourse this is a though question, and I can imagine the doctors wouldn't want to consent because the woman thinks someone who they don't believe in(most likely) told her it's all going to be okay.

 

[Yoggs]

Let's make a little scenario:

You are a doctor (a catholic/christian doctor), treating a baby with a serious case of cancer and without treatment the baby will die. But the mother of the baby says she spoke to god and god said that the baby needs no medical help and it will be fine. The mother then rejects the help you are trying to give to her baby. You wouldn't agree with her. Atleast I wouldn't and I would do everything that I could for the baby to receive treatment.

I know that is a bit off topic but I'd rather trust the word of a doctor to the word of 'God' (who may have just been the woman's mind playing tricks on her due to hormones. Obviously the woman is religious and didn't want to hear that she had to have an abortion so her mind made God tell her she didn't have to have one)

Anyway, back onto the main topic. I personally believe Abortion should be legal all over the world. I understand why people would class it as murder (religious or not) but the baby comes from the woman's body and without the woman, the baby wouldn't be there so I believe she, and only she, should have the final say into whether she wants an abortion or not. I'm not a female so I will never have to feel how hard it must be for a woman to have to choose to have an abortion. If Abortion was to be made illegal then it would still happen, except it would be more dangerous for a woman to have an abortion performed by an uncertified doctor. Also, to what was said earlier in the topic about how Adoption is an alternative to abortion, I feel that that isn't true. The child may not be adopted and have to live its life with the feeling of not being good enough (with its parents giving it up and not being adopted). If it is adopted there is no way in telling it will be put into a caring family.

I believe recently in the year (or in 2012) a 2 year old girl was taken away from her parents because her mother was prone to seizures and her father smoked marijuana while she was out of the house. The parents knew it would be better for their daughter to be taken out of their care and put into a foster home while her father went to a rehabilitation centre. The girl was put into a foster family but was sadly killed by the foster mother due to abuse and neglect.

Being adopted/put into a foster family isn't as good as it would look to someone who hasn't been through it/knows someone personally who has been through it.

 

[Midorime]

I think the big problem is not all adoption agencies screen the people well enough who wish to adopt. There needs to be more investigations before they had over a child.

 

[SupahCow090]

I think the big problem is not all adoption agencies screen the people well enough who wish to adopt. There needs to be more investigations before they had over a child.

I guess it's the Adoption Center's problem and not the people itself.

And as for Ciara, you had a bad childhood and you don't want your child too experience that too so you decided to abort it? I believe you made his/her life worse by not letting him/her live. And not all Foster homes and Adoption centers are bad. It might have been bad luck that you ended up in a 'bad' one. It's their problem and not yours. You could choose which Adoption Center your child will be in. Sorry if that offended you

But yeah, opinions opinions opinions.

 

[nerdbot]

I guess it's the Adoption Center's problem and not the people itself.

And as for Ciara, you had a bad childhood and you don't want your child too experience that too so you decided to abort it? I believe you made his/her life worse by not letting him/her live. And not all Foster homes and Adoption centers are bad. It might have been bad luck that you ended up in a 'bad' one. It's their problem and not yours. You could choose which Adoption Center your child will be in. Sorry if that offended you

But yeah, opinions opinions opinions.

I don't believe that you can place blame on either party. Some children do not have good experiences with their foster families because some people underestimate how much time, commitment, and energy (and not to mention money!) that goes into raising a child. That neglect has such a negative impact. Furthermore, as with many jobs, some adoption agencies may not have the proper facilities, job training, or even support that they need to fully care for so many children. I know an adoption agency for animals in my city had to put a hold on accepting disowned animals because there was so many animals.

I disagree with what you said about Ciara's choice, SupahCow090. While you are correct that not all adoption agencies/foster homes are bad, I think it would be too much of a gamble. Assuming that she stays in the same town she was raised in her entire life, very well her child could have gone to that same adoption agency that she was raised poorly in. What if it's a small town? That might be her only choice. Regardless, you have to respect the decision she has made and know that she chose in her child's best interest.

As parents, abortion is not a scapegoat. It is a well thought out process before a decision is made, and it is not as simple as waking up one morning and deciding to get one.

 

[SupahCow090]

Then why 'make love' with no protection? You 'made love' for pleasure? Then when you find out that you're/ your girlfriend is pregnant, you decide to abort it when it's entirely your fault?

I know some of you can't take me seriously because of my age but I do have some ideas of what I'm talking about. Our neighbor before almost had abortion and our family convinced her to not to and we'll just help their family out. Now, her daughter is an honor student and a valedictorian at their batch.

What I'm trying to say is, you should know what path you're gonna go through when you 'make love' with no protection. You should know the things you should do. It's all about self-discipline. Give the baby a chance at least.

 

[Box]

It is a well thought out process before a decision is made, and it is not as simple as waking up one morning and deciding to get one.

Here's where I disagree with you. People can be pretty impulsive...

Anyway, I don't think abortion should be outlawed (nor do I support it). I don't like the idea, but it should remain an option...

One that should not be abused.

 

[Counting Bodies Like Sheep]

What I'm trying to say is, you should know what path you're gonna go through when you 'make love' with no protection. You should know the things you should do. It's all about self-discipline. Give the baby a chance at least.

Supacow, it is not as simple as 'making love with no protection'. I really don't know how to explain what I mean by this. It just isn't that simple.

Many people who become pregnant were using at least one form of contraception. Many people who become pregnant do not *want* to have an abortion. Abortion isn't something that is taken lightly; it isn't something that is approached with a flippant attitude.

I can't speak for others, but to me, abortion is a last resort. You wish you could give your child a good home, to take care of them and to be a loving parent. You want to give them the world, but for whatever reason - whether it be financial considerations, university, or over-zealous religious parents who will demean you for the rest of your life because you had sex before marriage - you can't, and it tears you up inside.

I really do believe that abortion is something that is not fully understood unless you have been there yourself.

 

[Midorime]

Then why 'make love' with no protection? You 'made love' for pleasure? Then when you find out that you're/ your girlfriend is pregnant, you decide to abort it when it's entirely your fault?

Some do use protection, and sometimes more than one at a time. But nothing is ever 100% except having your tubes cut, but even then there's a slight chance of them growing back together. Or having all the innards removed for the reproduction process. But doctors won't do this for women unless they're in their 40s or 50s, or already have 3 children or more. And I don't think that's right, if they want to have something done to make them sterile, they should have that right. Also some women can be allergic to many forms of birth control and nothing may truly work. What then? Abstain forever? No one wants a partner they cannot make love to, ever, that's a silly thought to even have. I mean, would you marry someone you could never love in that way because they wanted to avoid any and all possible ways that a child could be conceived? Some couples never want kids, but it's ludicrous to think they would never make love. And then accidents can and do happen, and that's why abortion is an option and a choice.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

I think that if you don't think you're ready for an child, you shouldn't make love(even with protection), because protection is not 100% and that means you think it's okay to have the risk to do an abortion(or you're not aware of this, but now you are).

The outcome of making love is getting a baby, it's that simple. You may try to stop it but eventually "nature" will have its way.(You can't stop something natural forever).

Therefore, I think you should abstain. Actually, maybe don't even marry, if you don't plan on having kids.

 

[nerdbot]

I think that if you don't think you're ready for an child, you shouldn't make love(even with protection), because protection is not 100% and that means you think it's okay to have the risk to do an abortion(or you're not aware of this, but now you are).

The outcome of making love is getting a baby, it's that simple. You may try to stop it but eventually "nature" will have its way.(You can't stop something natural forever).

Therefore, I think you should abstain. Actually, maybe don't even marry, if you don't plan on having kids.

That is not realistic. That is much more easier said than done. Abstinence is a huge commitment. People naturally have libidos, and repressing it can adversely affect relationships.

Not even that, but marriage isn't simply about "having kids". You even said it yourself in a previous post, that it is more or less a confirmation of commitment and love. Children is not the product of that. Embracing the physicality of a relationship often leads to stronger emotional bonds with a partner.

I agree that people should know about and even face consequences, but to abstain is unrealistic.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

Yes, abstaining is hard, but waiting till you're married isn't too much asked.(The Bible also says it by saying it's better to marry then to burn with passion).

When you're married you normally should be able to take care of children, so it shouldn't be an issue anyway.

If you don't want children it can mean A.you're just selfish or B.you think you won't be able to take care of your child.

If it's B(A isn't even worth to discuss) and you happen to get pregnant anyway, you should not abort your child. I don't think keeping that child is going to kill you. It may make your life harder, or your child's', but that's all WAY better than killing it(and having a murder on your conscience for the rest of your life).

 

[SailorRosette]

Lets not point fingers for choices that others may have done. They have reasons that only they can truely understand to the fullest.

In this note, please consider what you post and try to keep it friendly.

 

[The Ultimate Doomer]

What then? Abstain forever?

Yes.

No one wants a partner they cannot make love to, ever, that's a silly thought to even have.

I do. "Abstaining" isn't hard. Maybe for others, but I don't know how or why. Not for me. I just don't get "desire" for that...but everyone else does...why...?

 

[TamaMum]

Yes.

I do. "Abstaining" isn't hard. Maybe for others, but I don't know how or why. Not for me. I just don't get "desire" for that...but everyone else does...why...?

If you truly believe that you never want a life partner with whom you will have any sexual relationship, it's not really directly to do with your views on Abortion.

It's a personal choice - but if you are asking why everyone else does and you do not that is the kind of thing you should be discussing with either a medical professional or your priest - not a community forum and not in a thread about Pro-Life or Pro-Choice

Please, everyone try to stay on topic and avoid making either judgemental posts about others or attention seeking posts. Thanks

 

[Yoggs]

I feel like I may have strayed a little off topic on my last post so... sorry

Anyway, should there not be three options in the poll rather than two? As Pro-choice and being for abortion are two different things

"*Pro-choice

Pro-Life

Pro-Abortion"

Or something like that, because being Pro-Choice doesn't mean you think Abortion is right but it means you think that every mother should have the choice.

But yeah, Just putting in that incase people are a bit confused as to what to vote for.

 

[Kuribotchi]

I feel like I may have strayed a little off topic on my last post so... sorry

Anyway, should there not be three options in the poll rather than two? As Pro-choice and being for abortion are two different things

"*Pro-choice

Pro-Life

Pro-Abortion"

Or something like that, because being Pro-Choice doesn't mean you think Abortion is right but it means you think that every mother should have the choice.

But yeah, Just putting in that incase people are a bit confused as to what to vote for.

it's only confusing if you make it confusing, it's basically yes to abortion or no to abortion, there is no fine print.

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still pro-choice woo