Where did we come from...?

[Tehblues]

Evolution- Our world came from a source a chunk of matter colliding into another matter that caused a chain reaction, and what is known as our "universe" came to be. Eventually, there was this "Primordial ooze" and from it came simple life-forms that evolved over thousands of years. Following the evolution, a meteor hit and covered our atmosphere with dust. The dust cooled the atmosphere and caused an ice age. Mankind evolved from primates and yada yada, history, something or other, here we are today.

Intelligent Design- There was only God to begin with. God was, and that was the universe. This God spoke, and there was a universe, light, land, plants, animals, and humans. Humans were not created as animals but as a God-like being given the task of subduing the land they had. Some long history later, here we are.

Agnostic- Mankind cannot know their origins, lest they were there.

There presents an arguements that have dated back to ages beyond our common history's notice. It's a difficult decision to make, however, some have been brought to a crossroads. The discussion- Evolution and Creation. Agnostic shant be in this particular thread, however, neutralism is.

I would like to start the discussion with this, how can one prove evolution is more correct than creation?

Edit: Please read this before posting any reply: https://www.tamatalk.com/IB/index.php?showt...dpost&p=1807954

Thank you, TM

 

[TamaMum]

Ok, let me jump right in here and say you're not going to be able to prove or disprove this on TamaTalk.

No one is an expert here, but we all have opinions

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but on this site you express it politely. No being blunt, no being rude, no abuse or flaming please.

Before you post a reply, please review the rules for the Seriously Non TamaTalk forum carefully.

If this topic gets out of hand, don't get involved, instead please hit the report button (orange coloured triangle, bottom right hand corner of every reply on this topic) for a member of the Guides team to sort out.

Thanks

 

[Tehblues]

Ok, let me jump right in here and say you're not going to be able to prove or disprove this on TamaTalk.
No one is an expert here, but we all have opinions

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but on this site you express it politely. No being blunt, no being rude, no abuse or flaming please.

Before you post a reply, please review the rules for the Seriously Non TamaTalk forum carefully.

If this topic gets out of hand, don't get involved, instead please hit the report button (orange coloured triangle, bottom right hand corner of every reply on this topic) for a member of the Guides team to sort out.

Thanks

Roger, I'll keep this as soft as I can.

 

[pyonchit]

I believe in the theory of evolution. It is quite simple.

You may ask why:

I was rasied in a mildly anti-christian environment and at the same time I was always surrounded by science. My grandfather grew up loving science, and he passed this down to his son, who has passed it down to me. So in the early years of my life Bill Nye the Science Guy was my favorite TV show (did you know it's his birthday today?) and I knew a lot of interesting things that other little children did not know nor care about. I my love for animals and all living things was spawned from an early appreciation of them.

In this setting, it is completely illogical for me to turn to Christianity on my own, and it's illogical for my parents to encourage me to pursue it. It is logcial for me to believe in evolution, as it made sense to me from the beginning.

I am not unreligeous, for I believe that in itself atheism is a religeon. It is a belief, and all oppinions are on equal ground, no?

On another note, while the theory of evolution is related to how the world began, it isn't really about how the world began. You can believe in evolution and believe that God created the earth, if you take a few things in the bible to be untrue or metaphors.

 

[Sweet Kandi]

In my eyes, none of the theories we have make sense.

The Big Bang is basically: First, there was nothing, then nothing exploded and created everything. Something can't be created from nothing. It's like FMA's equivalent exchange. To obtain, something of equal value must be given up/lost. That also goes with Antoine Lavoisier's law of conservation of matter. Matter can't be destroyed/created, but it can be altered.

I wont get much into the religious aspect of why we're here, because in my mind that's already been completely ruled out by the fact that people say 'God was always there', and refuse to even think that something else created him. But there brings my mind back to the big bang. You can't create something from nothing. Something would've had to create God. Something isn't just there. Something else has to create it. But then brings the question, what created the thing that created God? It's a never ending trail of 'who created who?'

I personally don't care why we're here. All I know is we're here and that's all that matters. We're here to live. Not to argue over how we or our world was created.

Live life like it's your last day and don't worry about trivial things that you'll never find a definite answer to.

 

[Trilby]

Wow, this could get messy. Hope everyone remembers to be nice ^.^

So here is what I have decided so far;

*we didnt begin as the humans we are now

*for a while, we were nothing. there was nothing here, our sun was not around so there was certainly no chance for life

*we know how old our sun is, and how old other stars etc and there are things predating our solar system, so we werent first

*maybe god created the universe, where did he come from?

*how could there have once been nothing? not just empty blackness. less than that, nothing.

*were we just by chance created? one day the universe just began? was there some sort of catalyst? did something begin that or was it arbitrary?

*maybe the universe has been expanding and contracting since the beginning of time

*maybe we are part of a web of alternate universes

*maybe it is like horton hears a who and we are a speck of dust blowing around in another much larger world

I can neither prove nor disprove either the theory of evolution or god or any other contending thoery. they all just lead to more questions. i once wanted to be an astrophysicist and find the answers to these questions. then i decided whatever i found out would just lead to more questions. maybe one day i would find the answer. what then? life is cheap with no mystery.

 

[Gejitchi]

Evolution- Our world came from a source a chunk of matter colliding into another matter that caused a chain reaction, and what is known as our "universe" came to be. Eventually, there was this "Primordial ooze" and from it came simple life-forms that evolved over thousands of years. Following the evolution, a meteor hit and covered our atmosphere with dust. The dust cooled the atmosphere and caused an ice age. Mankind evolved from primates and yada yada, history, something or other, here we are today.

Evolution is not a theory of origin--this is a common misconception. Biological evolution is the idea that traits are passed on from parent to child during reproduction along with possible mutations along the way due to crossing populations, etc. Natural selection goes hand in hand with biological evolution in that natural selection is the natural process by which undesirable traits get "weeded" out, and desirable traits grow and become more common in species. For an example, if a species of moths live in a tree that has brown leaves, and some of those moths are brown and some of them are white, the white moths will be eliminated by the predators more often because they are more visible against their dark backdrop. Thusly, being a white moth in that situation would be the undesirable trait, and therefore as time goes on the brown moth would become the more common type of the two as the white moths don't have a chance to reproduce because they are destroyed.

As for me, I'm something of an agnostic--We'll never be able to know for sure where anything came from. In fact, I'm a fan of Pyrrhonism as well--nothing can ever be known for sure.

 

[tamaw/pants]

Evolution is not a theory of origin--this is a common misconception. Biological evolution is the idea that traits are passed on from parent to child during reproduction along with possible mutations along the way due to crossing populations, etc. Natural selection goes hand in hand with biological evolution in that natural selection is the natural process by which undesirable traits get "weeded" out, and desirable traits grow and become more common in species. For an example, if a species of moths live in a tree that has brown leaves, and some of those moths are brown and some of them are white, the white moths will be eliminated by the predators more often because they are more visible against their dark backdrop. Thusly, being a white moth in that situation would be the undesirable trait, and therefore as time goes on the brown moth would become the more common type of the two as the white moths don't have a chance to reproduce because they are destroyed.

Correct so let me point this out- we as Christians do NOT think that evolution and the fittest wins is false in any sense. That is correct. BUT, well some have different opinions such as that God used evolution as a tool [which BTW is not supported by the Bible one reason or another which I could elaborate on but won't], etc. etc., we do not believe we came from goo then monkeys and now we are here.

Obviously, I believe in intelligent design. Could it be that we all share qualities with monkeys and other animals because it was the same creator? Hm...

I do have a question for evolutionists- how did the eye form? Okay, so you get better and better, the weaklings die off and eveything builds on one adaptation and so on. What about the eye? It didn't just 'pop up' during one generation but without one single part the eye will not work. How does that end up working out?

Again, just because we are Christians does not mean we a stupid science hatters- actually Christian scientists have contributed a lot to science, more than most give credit too.

 

[Lily12]

Gosh people have such big posts.

 

I just think we don't have enough proof to explain anything right now...so in my opinon I can't say anything.

 

[Gejitchi]

I do have a question for evolutionists- how did the eye form? Okay, so you get better and better, the weaklings die off and eveything builds on one adaptation and so on. What about the eye? It didn't just 'pop up' during one generation but without one single part the eye will not work. How does that end up working out?

This is a fairly common argument, and there are many hypothises concerning that popular topic of debate.

 

[paper*cut]

I realy dont know or care how the world was created

I just think were all living things and when we die we just die and lay in a coffin

 

[Trilby]

This is a fairly common argument, and there are many hypothises concerning that popular topic of debate.

Yes, this question has been posed before and there are some interesting thoughts on it.

And also, as we have pointed out, this isn't a question of science vs religion. This is a question of chance vs intention. Which one is easier to explain? I don't know.

 

[Tamagirl_Desy]

I believe in God.

 

I don't believe that there was a big bang and then the earth was created along with trees, water, animals, ect.

You can't create something from nothing (like Tw/p said). I think that God was just there...he wasn't created, he was just there.

And he created a world, and created the human male. Then, to make the female, he used one of the mans ribs.

 

But really, this discussion isn't science vs religion (as Trilby mentioned). It's opinion based. Nobody will ever know how the Earth was

created.

Think about it though...isn't the ear a miracle? Or the liver? It would have taken MUCH more than star particles (or whatever it is some people think created teh first animals and objects) to create the liver. It would have had to taken deep thought and intelligence.

 

We will never know, and sometimes it frusterates me to want to know but never being able to!! Yet it is pretty fun to think about.

 

[RachelGotchi]

I personally believe time is a circle. In some number of years, the entire universe will collapse again, rebound, explode, and become again what it is today.

So while visualizing time as a line may be more... pleasing, I feel that for scientific reasons time can only be explained as a circle.

I believe in evolution. I think that humans have stopped evolving considering there really is no 'survival'; it's people moving about in a modern world where most things are provided off-hand.

 

[Trilby]

What was God doing before he decided to create the universe? And its not that there was a big bang and all of a sudden everything was here. That is not part of any theory. I am more fond of the theory that time is a circle, like RachelGotchi said, although I don't know when the first time this happened was. It had to have begun at one point. It is believed that the universe has been around for about 15 billion years. Thats it? That is not very long. Well it is, but nowhere near eternity. It seems very likely that there was something before then. Maybe God, maybe another universe, maybe our universe was in the process of collapsing (because we know that it is currently expanding). I think something was going on 15 billion years ago though. Maybe God was just sitting around on his own for a heck of a long time. Maybe something we haven't figured out started all this.

 

[Gejitchi]

I personally believe time is a circle. In some number of years, the entire universe will collapse again, rebound, explode, and become again what it is today.
So while visualizing time as a line may be more... pleasing, I feel that for scientific reasons time can only be explained as a circle.

I believe in evolution. I think that humans have stopped evolving considering there really is no 'survival'; it's people moving about in a modern world where most things are provided off-hand.

I agree that humans have stopped evolving. In the "old days," people with debilitating sicknesses and disabilities would die off--now, money is the factor that determines survival with the multitude of treatment options available for the variety of illnesses that infect people. It's interesting that our survival has moved from a physical plane to a social one.

 

[TamaMum]

I agree that humans have stopped evolving. In the "old days," people with debilitating sicknesses and disabilities would die off--now, money is the factor that determines survival ...

I think humans are still evolving

Evolution takes a long time and can't be judged on a few life times.

I do think money has affected survival tho'

I thought I read somewhere that the Japanese race is steadily growing taller and taller with each generation and that it has been linked to the nutritional changes in their normal diet (more red meat consumed than in the past).

Does that count as a form of evolution ?

 

[RachelGotchi]

I think humans are still evolving Evolution takes a long time and can't be judged on a few life times.

I do think money has affected survival tho'

I thought I read somewhere that the Japanese race is steadily growing taller and taller with each generation and that it has been linked to the nutritional changes in their normal diet (more red meat consumed than in the past).

Does that count as a form of evolution ?

This is an interesting point... to what extent do we consider something to be 'evolution'? While that is considered evolving, it's not the exact thing I meant when I said 'evolution'... I suppose I meant a more extreme form, like from the apes to humans, etc?

 

[Star Tama]

I'm sure scientists have evidence to support their theory. Lets face it. You don't come up with a theory and then say "It's just a haunch really."

It is strange to think how any of this came to be. I don't believe in God and to be honest the Big Band theory has always sounded a bit far fetched. I don't really bother thinking about it. I more think. Some how we came to exist. How that happened is a mystery to all creatures. Some believe they can explain it and others do not. At the end of the day it's history and long burried.

Pixellover

 

[GotchiGirl96]

Well, you see, we never really will know for sure. In my opinion, I think that both evolution and God played a part in the creation of this earth and what it is today.

Who's to say that God didn't create those one celled organisms that evolved into very complicated life forms known as humans and primates? But then you have think, who created God? And who created the thing that created God? And then who created that? It's really a never ending chain of questions about what created what, how'd this get here, etc.

The world as it is today obviously didn't just appear. Something had to have created it. Maybe it was the big bang, maybe it was God. And who's to say a Christian can't believe in both things? God could have created the creatures that later evolved into humans, like I said before.

While I'm pretty sure it is against the Bible to not believe in God creating the earth, and then creating Adam and Eve, it isn't wrong to question it, or to believe that evolution really happened. (in my opinion) There are a few things in the bible that I don't really agree with. Like, the Bible says that you are not to be gay, lesbian, homosexual, whatever you want to call it. But there are Christians out there that are gay and lesbian and homosexual.

We will never know for sure how the earth got to be what it is today and where living creatures came from, and whatever. But it is a very interesting concept to think about. I do not think that there is just one answer, either evolution or religion. I think it's probably a combination of the two. Sometimes you have to piece together the puzzle one piece at a time, and figure out new strategies and whatnot. Something may have created the earth, or God may have done it. There quite possibly could have been something here all along that created the earth, or made things happen and such.

Ok, to end this post, we will never know for sure, but it is a very interesting thing to discuss. But, as long as we're all here, why not enjoy our lives and not spend all of our time trying to figure out things that will never, ever, EVER be clearly explained.