What Is Your Religion?

[elelia]

I have looked it up before posting anything.

I do not hate anyone here, btw. Not saying I do not dislike some people.

* removed - site rules *

And if people want to push me to this "friends with everybody"/avoid discussion thing, then I rather leave Tamatalk.

You are wrong.

Satanism is called Satanism, not because Satanists are trying to "mock" you.

Below I have noted some quotes which may help *removed - site rules *..

"Christians didn’t invent Satan. There is always a Satan, an adversary, in every culture. There is always the figure who represents the Dark Side, the unexplored realms, the prideful beast who defies the norm. God, on the other hand, generally represents conventionality, predictability, the safety of normality, the comfort of the larger group and the rewards of staying within the bounds of propriety."

"To us, Satan is the symbol that best suits the nature of we who are carnal by birth—people who feel no battles raging between our thoughts and feelings, we who do not embrace the concept of a soul imprisoned in a body. He represents pride, liberty, and individualism—qualities often defined as Evil by those who worship external deities, who feel there is a war between their minds and emotions."

"Since the Satanist understands that all Gods are fiction, instead of bending a knee in worship to—or seeking friendship or unity with—such mythical entities, he places himself at the center of his own subjective universe as his own highest value. We Satanists are thus our own “Gods,” and as beneficent “deities” we can offer love to those who deserve it"

"The word “Satan” is the first hurdle to understanding what we’re trying to get across. Question, challenge all things, especially what you’ve been taught about supposed enemies. Sort out the truth from convenient myths."

"We create our gods, not the other way around. In a very real way, we construct them and define them—and they, in turn, guide and define us."

"Our primary goal is to clearly disseminate the philosophy created by Anton Szandor LaVey to those who have an interest in understanding the truth regarding our beliefs and practices, and to encourage individuals who embrace Satanism to utilize this perspective as a means for enhancing their lives and for leaving a legacy of creativity that demonstrates to human society the potency of our diabolical perspective."

- Church of Satan,

https://www.churchofsatan.com/

Please do some research before you discriminate an entire religious group.

 

[SailorRosette]

This is your last warning guys. Please keep to the topic AND a level discussion.

To note, the topic I think was suppose to be more relaxed. (see the first posts)

 

[Amat Gotchi]

I have looked it up before posting anything.

I do not hate anyone here, btw. Not saying I do not dislike some people.

The thing is, satanism is not just atheism. It's a few big steps back and mocks the Christian religion.(Talking about tolerance).

Instead of not believing they use a bad "thing" out of another religion to symbolize themselves.

I'm not sure if some people are blind here, but that's pretty sick and immoral.

*removed - site rules *

And if people want to push me to this "friends with everybody"/avoid discussion thing, then I rather leave Tamatalk.

Satanism is a religion, just as much as Christianity is.

People have every right to follow whatever religion they want.

While I may not agree with the teachings of Satanism, Satanists have every right to practice whatever religion they want.

I don't believe that you can go to hell just for practicing a certain religion rather than another one. In essence, I believe people go to hell if they are generally bad people, who hurt and kill others.

If I was afraid for someone's moral salvation, I'd pray for them. It's much friendlier than labeling them as "going to hell" in front of others. And I can't be certain that my religion is totally correct! Every other religion has its own validity, and its teachings might or might not be true.

*removed - site rules *People can be great friends with one another even if they believe in totally different religions! They can even discuss their religions with one another to see why they believe in what they do.

I think the thing with discussions like these is to be a little less blunt and a little more accepting. No one has to agree with everything anyone says, but the idea behind this thread is to better understand other people. I'm not a Mormon either, but that doesn't mean I would say that Mormonism is inherently wrong (by the way, the Mormon polygamy thing is a mostly-extinct branch of Mormonism).

I don't really mind if you think my branch of Christianity is "too far." The way I think doesn't need to be the same as the way you do. It's good to know how other people act, and try to look at the similarities as well as the differences between yourself and them, and try to see why people believe what they believe. Reading your posts has made me think more about why I believe what I believe and why you believe what you do.

All of this is merely my opinion. It's ok if you disagree, because very few people can be absolutely certain about their religion.

Edit: Also, in reply to what TamaMum said, I was not trolling, just sticking up for another member. I'm sorry that stirred people up.

 

[nafaan]

stefan you can't tell people what they can and can't believe. each and every person has different morals, opinions and outlooks on religion and life. close minded christians *removed - site rules* are the reason people have such a problem with religion becuase they're having people day in and day out forcing their opinions down other peoples throats. if you don't agree with something, that's great! but keep it to yourself, because people either A. don't care or B. are being offended. next time, choose your words a little more carefully.

thought i'd post the main 11 "guidelines" to follow in satanism, you can't tell me being satanist means you have no morals. from what i understand, the bible often condones and approves of rape. if you look at "rule" number 5 of satanists, you will notice that it says very clearly "do not make sexual advances unless given the mating signal"
that seems pretty dang moral to me

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

I LOVE SATANISTS ◕‿◕ *pinches y'all cheeks*
-regards, a gay pagan witch xoxo

 

[Midorime]

Interesting. From what I know back when I was into Wicca, Satanists more or less hated to be lumped together with Wiccans and vice versa. But it was never that they were bad, just both sides had very different views. Wiccans were more for groups and helping all, Satanist were more for themselves under the belief that you cannot trust anyone more than you can trust yourself. (Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a decade since I've read up on this stuff and I really mean no offense--I'm not sure if things have changed these years as well). Doesn't mean that's 'bad' per say, everyone has a level of degree into which they are selfish, and being selfish isn't truly a bad thing, you have to be at some point lest you fall apart trying to help others to much, spreading yourself thin.

I hate to say this * removed - site rules * While it's nice you are, in your own way, looking out for others and want to steer them right, you also need to learn that you cannot change those who don't want to change, or help those who refuse the help. And this is where you have to learn to have tolerance. People will not change no matter what you do, say, or believe, they will change by their will alone. All you can do is be yourself, and if you think that's the right way to live, 'God's way' as you say, then by all means live that way. * removed - site rules * That's why there's so many problems in the world, no one can open their eyes or their heart anymore to accept others for who they are. Everyone, so long as they are good people and mean well, should be loved and accepted--they have the right to live a full, meaningful, happy, healthy life just like the rest of us, and just like you.

So I ask you, from myself * removed - site rules *. You can do as you please, and in the future raise your kids to be just like you, probably even deny them the joys of fictional characters like Santa and the Easter Bunny and all of those, but it doesn't mean you have the right to dispel the magic in the hearts of others.

To everyone else: be happy, be yourself, love yourself. That's all you have to do. Don't let anyone bring you down for what you believe-- respect is key here, and with respect brings tolerance which can follow with love.

 

[TamaMum]

This is your last warning guys. Please keep to the topic AND a level discussion.

To note, the topic I think was suppose to be more relaxed. (see the first posts)

It's disappointing that some participants in this thread have just plain ignored this post by SailorRosette.

If you intend to reply in this thread make sure it follows site rules regarding posts on TamaTalk - all posts should be:

friendly, respectful and with the intention of positive contribution towards TamaTalk.

(in case that is not clear - insulting someone or their beliefs, being rude or confrontational about what they have said in the topic is unacceptable, negative behaviour and applies to comments made by several members in the last several pages of this topic)

This topic is in the Seriously Non TamaTalk forum - so all discussions must be mature and sensible - no exceptions, no excuses -

(everyone feels strongly about their own point of view - it's not an excuse to ignore site rules regarding posting behaviour).

The topic under discussion is "What is your Religion?" - please everyone - stay on topic and post replies within the rules for this site and this forum area.

 

[elelia]

* removed - site rules*

On topic,

Nafaan, I find Wiccan's so interesting but I am a little ignorant on the subject, i'd love it if you could outline some basics! I'm going to do some research of my own now, but it would be fantastic to hear from a Wiccan rather than a wall of information.

This is a great thread, it's fantastic to hear about everyone's beliefs and their passions!

TM Edit: You can contact any member of this site using the PM (Private Message) system if you have any queries or are unsure about the site rules.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

The main essence of my post got removed, which makes it quite hard to have a good discussion here.

I do tolerate religions in the sense of not hating these people, but I will do, as my religion says me to, tell them why I think it is wrong.

Anyway, if you wonder what the big deal is with satanism, I think nafaan's post sums it up pretty well.

 

[hwd45]

Wow, this topic went a bit downhill with one person stating their religion- and I thought we were all fairly accepting earlier. So many posts containing '*removed- site rules*' xD

What I find interesting is that... without trying to offend anyone... I've seen many christians being hateful or non-accepting to those with other religions (again, this does not by any means apply to the majority)... but I've never seen satanists, those who claimed to be 'abnormal' or 'wrong', question or hate people because of their different beliefs... what does that have to say about the 'loving' religion of Christianity?

Once again, my post was my opinion and was in no way intended to offend anyone- this topic is on 'the brink', so I don't want it to seem like I was doing that.

 

[elelia]

* removed - naming and shaming - please respect our site rules *

There is always going to be hate for Satanists, mostly just because of the controversial word and people not doing their research. On the plus side the above discussion might have helped someone understand Satanism before if they didn't know.

It's just a bit sad people can be closed minded but that's their decision, I just don't think it's far to be so outspoken about it when it hurts others.

It's odd that such hate can come from what is meant to be such "loving religion"s (not just talking about Christianity here). A friend of mine is studying anthropology. For example, Christian terrorism and sex abuse within Churches is absolutely horrendous.

This is a really interesting article if you wish for a read: https://www.juancole.com/2013/04/terrorism-other-religions.html

I also find it upsetting how much Muslim terrorism is exaggerated in the US..

"Of the more than 300 American deaths from political violence and mass shootings since 9/11, only 33 have come at the hands of Muslim-Americans, according to the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security."

Source: https://tcths.sanford.duke.edu/documents/Kurzman_Muslim-American_Terrorism_final2013.pdf

. I've seen many christians being hateful or non-accepting to those with other religions (again, this does not by any means apply to the majority)... but I've never seen satanists, those who claimed to be 'abnormal' or 'wrong', question or hate people because of their different beliefs... what does that have to say about the 'loving' religion of Christianity?

I've also seen this with not just Satanism but also other "controversial" religions.. It's extremely strange the trend.. Although, I think with Satanism is that throughout the Satanic Bible it is made abundantly clear not to impose our beliefs to those who do not show interest.. Whereas I think Christianity is much more about "Sharing his love" and making others "Repent".. We are very much encouraged to keep our thoughts to ourselves.. For example, the first Satanic Rule of the Earth is to

"Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked."

- Satanic Bible

And throughout the Satanic Bible that is enforced clearly about not imposing the Satanic Religion upon others who do not show interest.

So, to impose our beliefs and be aggressive about others beliefs is directly contradicting of the religion, whereas Christians are often taught to share the word of Christ.

I think that might be the reason why the aggressive party in these debates are often Christians, purely because they are taught to "share the love of Christ" and they are expressing their passion. I personally don't think thats the right way to try and make others "repent" and how to gain followers but they obviously think they are doing something right....

 

[Amat Gotchi]

Many wars and deaths could have been avoided if people had realized that everyone has the right to their own religions and opinions.

For example, the Crusades, in which Christians fought against Muslims.

The Holocaust, in which Jews (along with "Gypsy" people [referring them to this way because that's what they were called back then], priests, and gays) were persecuted for being who they were.

And today, we have all these wars involving Muslims in the Middle East...

when can people learn to accept each other?

I guess we'll have to work on it.

 

[nafaan]

@amat gotchi - just letting you know that the word "gypsy" is a slur, it offends lots of people. (i'm not offended nor angry, just pointing it out c

@elelia - wicca and paganism are different c: in the 1940's a man named gerald gardener created his own religion called wicca, they follow a rede "an it harm none, do what ye will" wicca is more about love and light, not harming others, woshiping the earth (among lots of other things) they also believe that whatever you do, you will get back 3x - the three fold law. wicca is an initiation religion, you can class yourself as a "studying wiccan" or a "training wiccan" etc. but you can't actually say that you're a wiccan unless you've been initiated into a gardnerian coven or an alexandrian coven. usually they only initiate witches related by blood but from what i know there have been acceptions. alot of people don't realise that wicca is an initiative religion, as made so by gerald, therefore they go ahead starting up covens and naming themselves as wiccan. paganism on the other hand, dates back to the burning times. it's one of the oldest religions and is very branched out and free willed. i consider myself an eclectic pagan, which means i take a little bit from this religion, and a little from that, then incorporate those beliefs into my own practices. it's not that i follow multiple religions, it's just that i may work with deitys from other religions and cultures. i also do practice withcraft and i love crystal magic, it's really great, i've felt a calling for it since i was quite young and knew more about it. you should definitely do some research, it's great to read up on and understand better c:

just a side note; practicing witchcraft is not "worshipping the devil" as some may say. magic comes from everything around us, the energy in the flowers, trees, rocks, animals, dirt, people and many other things. you don't have to be gifted or special to practice withcraft, you just have to have faith and an open mind

 

[elelia]

Oh, I feel so ignorant, haha! Sorry, as I said i've never really looked all that much into it. It sounds absolutely fascinating, I think I'll take a visit to the library and pick out some books on the topic. My partner lives in Glastonbury and i've heard there is quite a lot of books and other research material there, i will definitely be getting some things when I pay a visit. So are they firm believers of a powerful "karma" so to speak?

I actually bought a lot of crystals when I was in Glastonbury last, I love wearing them and I have them scattered around in places along with my giant salt lamp . I find them soothing but I don't really know much about crystal magic.

Eclectic Paganism sounds beautiful, very "free" if you know what I mean? I think thats the beautiful thing about (some) religions, you can pick and choose what you wish, it's not all set in stone and ultimately, it's your beliefs. For example, you don't have to agree with everything in the Christian Bible such as some couples deciding to divorce ("Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery." Luke 16:18) And some Muslims decide to wear Hijabs, some decide to cover their legs and others don't. Just as there are parts of the Satanic Bible I don't agree with, so I do not force them upon myself. It's beautiful that you can have that choice!

So much research to do in these coming days! I just finished reading the Quran a few days ago (out of interest) so it's great to have another interesting religion to delve into. I feel this is going to move into a lot of research of different branches and beliefs within it though. I'm excited!

 

[nafaan]

gerald gardener has actually written a few bookes himself, if you wanted to read about wicca then i'd say he'd be the best bet c: but if you want to learn about paganism you are going to find soooo many different books! i'd recommend learning about herbal magic, crystal magic, setting up an altar and then maybe trying a few simple spells, charms or rituals. after that you can try travelling to different planes like the fae lands and contacting deitys to find your patron god/goddess. (easier said than done, requires alot of focus, concentration and skill. i have only travelled once for a few minutes and don't yet have a patron deity) if you PM me asking for certain spells sometime i may be able to help you out c:

karma is completely different. i'm not 100% sure on the religion it's based around but i think it may be buddhism. karma has been taught to lots of people as being something it's not. the way it works is that they believe the actions you make in life will impact your reincarnation (karma) so, if you live your life doing things to boost your karma, you will be reincarnated into something of a higher rank rather than if you were a bad person during your life, you would be reborn as an insect or something along those lines. you don't actually get your karma until after you die so when people always say things to you like "oh don't do that or karma will get you" yes, that is true, but, not until you die haha c:

i actually make crystal jewelry like pendants and stuff c: it's great fun.

 

[-Ra-]

Nafaan, I noticed several incorrect parts in your explanation of Wicca which I thought I'd point out. In 1951, the last Witchcraft Act was repealed in England, which gave those still practicing in secret the freedom to come out and express their beliefs publicly. A man named Gerald Gardner wrote the first book on the subject (Witchcrafy Today) in 1954, claiming to be a surviving member of a coven stretching back to ancient Pagan times. Not all Wiccans believe the same things, but there are several things they all accept, such as reincarnation, the wish to commit no harm and a reverence for nature/universe/deity. Also, you're right and wrong in saying Paganism and Wicca are different. Paganism is an umbrella term. Kind of like the term Christianity. There are many different branches, such as baptist, angelican, mormon etc. The same applies to Paganism. Basically, Paganism is an all-encompassing term for any religion with belief in more than one god (polytheism). As for what you said about Wicca being an intiative religion, and anyone who hasn't been initiated by a coven not being a valid Wiccan, I couldn't express how thoroughly incorrect that is. The vast majority of the Wiccan community are solitaries. Solitary Wicca is just as legitimate as any of the more popular branches such as Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Seax or Dianic. Unlike most organized religions, Wicca does not have a central authority (a Pope if you will) that all Wiccans follow. It is a very laid back, and flexible religion in which the practicioner is encouraged to do only those things which they feel comfortable doing.

@elelia - wicca and paganism are different c: in the 1940's a man named gerald gardener created his own religion called wicca, they follow a rede "an it harm none, do what ye will" wicca is more about love and light, not harming others, woshiping the earth (among lots of other things) they also believe that whatever you do, you will get back 3x - the three fold law. wicca is an initiation religion, you can class yourself as a "studying wiccan" or a "training wiccan" etc. but you can't actually say that you're a wiccan unless you've been initiated into a gardnerian coven or an alexandrian coven. usually they only initiate witches related by blood but from what i know there have been acceptions. alot of people don't realise that wicca is an initiative religion, as made so by gerald, therefore they go ahead starting up covens and naming themselves as wiccan. paganism on the other hand, dates back to the burning times. it's one of the oldest religions and is very branched out and free willed. i consider myself an eclectic pagan, which means i take a little bit from this religion, and a little from that, then incorporate those beliefs into my own practices. it's not that i follow multiple religions, it's just that i may work with deitys from other religions and cultures. i also do practice withcraft and i love crystal magic, it's really great, i've felt a calling for it since i was quite young and knew more about it. you should definitely do some research, it's great to read up on and understand better c:

just a side note; practicing witchcraft is not "worshipping the devil" as some may say. magic comes from everything around us, the energy in the flowers, trees, rocks, animals, dirt, people and many other things. you don't have to be gifted or special to practice withcraft, you just have to have faith and an open mind

 

[Amat Gotchi]

karma is completely different. i'm not 100% sure on the religion it's based around but i think it may be buddhism. karma has been taught to lots of people as being something it's not. the way it works is that they believe the actions you make in life will impact your reincarnation...

According to Wikipedia, karma is the idea of cause and effect, which began in ancient India and used in these religions: Hindu, Jain, Sikh, and Buddhist.

PS: thanks for the heads-up. I edited it a little. We don't talk about a lot of other cultures here, so I wasn't certain.

 

[Amat Gotchi]

Double post. Move along. >_>

 

[nafaan]

thanks for clearing some of those things up c: are you saying that gerald gardener didn't create wicca? because i know for a fact he did. i'm just going by what i've learnt through the pagan community. there was a big uproar about the whole initiation thing, i wasn't involved in the debate at the time but alot of other pagans i know were. a very reliable witch i know online named lizzy, pointed out that it is in fact an initiated religion, i'm not sure exactly what makes it so but i did see sourced info. it's really an opinion thing, if someone believes it isn't then you can't change their mind (this is just from what i've read, and what others have said) but as for paganism being an umberella term, i did mention that haha. although i didn't use those exact worse. your definition of paganism isn't correct to the dot either, you say that "Paganism is an all-encompassing term for any religion with belief in more than one god (polytheism)." i happen to know for a fact that there are athiest pagans and alot of them. i don't know what faith you follow or if you know many pagans but i've found that hearing other witches beliefs and information has given me a pretty huge idea on the whole subject.
just wanted to point out, i have studied witchcraft for a few years, paganism only for the last but i'm not some fool that is copying and pasting stuff from google, incase anyone got that idea ha. i'll try and find what was written about the initiation side of things and post it here but i can't make any promises, it was awhile ago

i just did some light browsing of info while i wait for replies from some friends on the subject, here is a very simple explanation. there is alot more detail to it and once i can regain that info i will share it.

"you are not considered a wiccan, until you join a coven that can trace their linage back to Gardnerian wicca"

some say you must be initated by sex, some say you don't. gardnerian is a bloodline coven, same with alexandrian and alot of others. i'm usually not the kind to say "this way is the only way" but when it comes to this, i will put my foot down. to be considered a proper, full fledged wiccan, you must be initiated. if you disagree, that's your opinion, not fact. ask around, i'm sure alot of people will tell you the same thing, although alot will disagree.
i hope this doesn't come across as rude, i'm not trying to be in anyway c: i just get quite defensive when it comes to religion. i wouldn't be following the path i am if i hadn't researched it thoroughly.

TM Edit: Two posts merged into one. Don't forget, you can edit a reply up to 24hrs after posting instead of double posting

 

[nafaan]

mine double posted too >.>

 

[nafaan]

i just did some light browsing of info while i wait for replies from some friends on the subject, here is a very simple explanation. there is alot more detail to it and once i can regain that info i will share it.

"you are not considered a wiccan, until you join a coven that can trace their linage back to Gardnerian wicca"

some say you must be initated by sex, some say you don't. gardnerian is a bloodline coven, same with alexandrian and alot of others. i'm usually not the kind to say "this way is the only way" but when it comes to this, i will put my foot down. to be considered a proper, full fledged wiccan, you must be initiated. if you disagree, that's your opinion, not fact. ask around, i'm sure alot of people will tell you the same thing, although alot will disagree.
i hope this doesn't come across as rude, i'm not trying to be in anyway c: i just get quite defensive when it comes to religion. i wouldn't be following the path i am if i hadn't researched it thoroughly.