What Is Your Religion?

[KERFUFFLE]

I just read this article and I agree with it. It also proves that people who are gay, just like any other sin, can change:

https://www.tbm.org/homosexualschange.htm

Again, however, this is an article from a strongly Christian website. I would like to see some kind of source entirely unrelated to religion for you to even start making any kind of legitimate claim to this theory.

As for evolution, I don't think that it entirely disproves the theory of the existence of god. Yes, it may render certain things in the Bible very questionable, particularly in the Old Testament, however it would still be fair to say that. Bear in mind that the Bible was written almost 2000 years ago, where people had minimal scientific knowledge and nobody could have travelled as much as Darwin did at this time to have noticed what he did about life. We are making advances all the time. Can you imagine how people living during the time when the Bible is set reacting to one of us telling them that we can now replace somebody's heart with a new one? They would never have believed it. A lot of the Bible would have been speculation based on what they knew and understood at the time, just as we do today about new species of animal that we find, or new resistant strains of disease. The existence of God, of Jesus and the things he did, as well as the morals expressed in the Bible are not disproven even if we could perhaps admit that Adam and Eve were not the first people on earth. It does seem a big coincidence for the whole universe to have just popped into existence, and God's clever enough to do it, so why is it not plausible to speculate that evolution was his idea? Many Christians have now accepted Evolution as fact whilst retaining their faith.

 

[Amat Gotchi]

Hwd45: I'd ask you to read the Homosexual thread where I give PLENTY Biblical evidence that the Bible finds gay a sin. It does say there literally!

Amat Gotchi, as far as I know I am allowed to believe in whatever I want, and if my religion TELLS me I HAVE TO say to unbelievers what's going to happen, then I will do so. (Freedom of speech?)

And you can NOT fit evolution in with the Bible for several reasons:

-the times are completely wrong.

-God created the man is his OWN image(so no monkey first...) from dust.

-God took a RIB from Adam and formed the woman.

I'm sure there are more verses and things I can disprove it with, but I won't since it's so obvious.

No one ever said you couldn't believe what you want. People argue with you because you tell them that their beliefs are wrong, and that the way you think is the only way to think. Generally speaking, no one is upset with your views, but they get all riled up because of the accusatory voice you so often seem to use.I completely respect your views. I totally disagree with what you say, but I can respect your opinions.

When it comes to "freedom of speech," sure, you can say whatever you want. And if, according to your religion, you may mention the consequences of not believing, that's fine. But this phrase comes to mind: "just because you can, doesn't mean you should." As in, just because you CAN tell an 11 year old that she's going to hell for not seeing things the way you do, doesn't mean you should. As in, if you're telling her the consequences, please be a little more polite?

Anyway, it also says in the Bible "With the Lord one day is like a thousand years (2 Pt 3:8)." And there are actually two creation stories. In one, the woman is made from Adam's rib, and in the other, it says "God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them (Genesis 1:27)." It says in that story nothing about Adam's ribs in that story.

And maybe, evolution was created, or triggered, by God. If you think about it, maybe God, who is an intelligent designer, created existence so it could evolve, and change, and eventually be in his own image. If, hypothetically, evolution is real, what caused it? If the Big Bang happened, why? I think that God created existence in itself, and even if we find whatever "answers" we're looking for, it will only bring more questions.

Evolution cannot be proven nor disproven. Great evidence can be shown to suggest that it is or isn't true. We've seen adaptations and advances, even in our own time. If God lives outside of time, then the "week" in which creation happened could have taken forever, the transitions in those days being millions to billions of years. After all, God is above the earth; he doesn't have to follow its rules.

Just something to think about. Anyone may believe whatever they please.

It's interesting to think about all this. I don't know about you, but sometimes I'm supposed to be doing my math homework and sit there pondering the meaning of life.

EDIT: grammar!

 

[Kuribotchi]

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I'm gonna explain my agnosticism.

I believe in god, but I do think there is a small chance there is not a god. I don't believe in any set religions, nor to I believe in heaven or hell. I don't believe I'll suffer in some afterlife, but I don't think I'll be rewarded either. I think that after I die, some sort of form of reincarnation happens, except the old you is dead and you've just taken over the conscious of a new life form, whether it's bacteria or a giraffe, even an extraterrestrial. Yes, I do believe in extraterrestrials. I don't like saying that I believe in them, because I thoroughly believe in the fact that there is forms of life on other planets in our universe, however it's most likely that they're just bacteria.

I try to be a good person, but I don't expect any rewards. I believe in god, but I don't think that god is a person. I don't think that he/she (whether they have a gender or not) is a supernatural life-form. I support evolution, it's a fact. The reason I believe in my take of reincarnation is because one thousand years ago I was not here, and in the year 3000 I will not be here either. Yet I'm here now, out of the blue, appeared and born (I think I don't need to explain where I first appeared in my father). Why can't that happen again after I'm dead?

 

[Midorime]

I have some interesting questions to put up....

1) if sin is of the flesh, if you receive a transplant form someone, do you take on their sin? Is it a sin to receive body parts to continue life?

2) If being gay is a sin, what about people who have no sexuality, those who cannot feel sexual at all and have zero desire to procreate, have a family, etc. Is that a sin to go against the 'law of the natural world?'

Also, you say that people can change out of being gay. That's not true, what is done is basically psychologically damaging the person to where they are so afraid to be themselves that they just end up conforming to fit the view of society and/or the church. They're still gay, but they're hiding behind a mask because everyone put them down for being who they were--they were literally broken. It's not a small wonder these people end up in divorce or worse, become suicidal.

Curious, too, what is the Bible's stance on intercourse? Is it even allowed to be enjoyed by the woman, or both parties? Or is it supposed to be for having children and nothing more? So if someone marries and never wants children, they should never sleep together? This is what confuses me about the Bible, I get different stories from different people on this subject, some more extreme than others.

Also, does the Bible inadvertently put down woman because woman is blamed for bringing sin upon everyone? If so, does that mean it's 'right' or 'okay' for men to look down upon women due to the story of Adam and Eve? Do you, personally, have a problem with women because of Eve?

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

The Bible is contrary to evolution since evolution IS an excuse for how life could have been created without a God. But math proves that this cannot have happened, so I'm against it. I'm also pretty sure, that if there was evolution it would have been written down in the Bible(dictated by God). But this is not the case.

Also the fact that evolution(de-evolution doesn't count) hasn't occurred ever for as long as the man lives, must mean something, ey?

I know very well, Amat Gotchi, that for God a day is like a thousand years and vice versa, and have thought that that week may have been perhaps too a very long time. I don't know it, but still evolution contradicts the Bible.

Also, the tiny layer of dust on the moon proves again that it is a young moon and not an old one.

Midorime, when the Bible speaks of flesh, it means the desires of the body. Like sex is a desire of the body and not of the spirit.

What about people that can control this desire? Paul says all the answers pretty clear:

"To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion." (1 Corinthians 7:8-9 RSV)

He says that his great self-control is a gift from God. But many have other gifts, and this is his. This gift is good, because he can devote more of his time to God.

 

[KERFUFFLE]

Evolution is no longer happening at a significant rate amongst human beings and animals in captivity due to our advancements in medicine. They mean that it is no longer a world where "survival of the fittest" is in force because we are able to save the lives of many people who otherwise would die. They are then, therefore, able to have their own children and pass on their "weaker" genes. The same goes for animals due veterinary treatment and comfortable living conditions for animals living in captivity, as well as the more limited choice of mates for the animals. The halt in evolution is also due to the fact that we have monogamous relationships based on individual taste and therefore women do not all look to have their children with the one best looking, most athletic and most intelligent man living in our area,

And there is significant evidence (I consciously avoid using the word proof, because it has been neither proved nor disproved) for evolution in scientific observations made over the years, through looking at skeletons of living things from the past, and taking DNA samples from all kinds of creatures and comparing them with each other. Scientists still continue to find new species of animals in spite of having scoured the globe tirelessly over many, many years, which would suggest that animals are continuing to evolve at such a level that they soon become entirely different to their ancestors. The fact that strains of disease can become immune to antibiotics and treatment is another piece of evidence to suggest that evolution is happening all the time- the one bacteria or virus in a culture that develops a mutation that renders it immune to an antibiotic will survive and then divide, creating a new, stronger culture.

Here is an article from a Christian website, by a Christian biologist, who believes that it is a plausible theory, and can be incorporated into the beliefs of someone of Christian faith:

https://www.eauk.org/church/resources/theological-articles/can-a-christian-believe-in-evolution.cfm

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

Okay, personally that top part in your post sound extremely ridiculous to me, and it's such a stupid argument that I don't want to continue on it.

Math > scientific "evidence".

Also on the bottom of that page you linked to, there was this link: https://www.eauk.org/church/resources/theological-articles/upload/andy-mckintosh.pdf

Makes sense to me.

 

[noodlepup3]

I am a Christian.

 

[Amat Gotchi]

Okay, personally that top part in your post sound extremely ridiculous to me, and it's such a stupid argument that I don't want to continue on it.

Math > scientific "evidence".

Also on the bottom of that page you linked to, there was this link: https://www.eauk.org/church/resources/theological-articles/upload/andy-mckintosh.pdf

Makes sense to me.

Sorry, but do you have the right to call other people's posts "ridiculous"?

One question: why is math greater than scientific evidence? In my opinion, maybe it's the other way around. Science is all about observing what's around you; with math you can make accurate calculations if there are only a few factors.

Then again, I don't think this debate should have anything to do with evolution. Evolution is a scientific theory, not a scheme against religion!

PS: follow this link and scroll down to "Too Little Moon Dust." I just thought that might be interesting.

 

[Midorime]

Last i checked, a lot of science included mathematics. Especially when you get into chemistry and physics. They're not mutually exclusive.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

Alright, I'm someone who likes math and I'm pretty good at it. I understand it and I'll explain why.

Math is always fact(unless made a flaw in calculation ofcourse).

Scientific evidence can be mistaken. And it is by math that you can prove science wrong, which I just did.

 

[Midorime]

It depends on the science. If you mean scientific theory then it is just that, a theory. If you're taking about chemistry or physics then it's math and fact.

For example 2 Hydrogen atoms will always have a polar covalent bond to Oxygen atoms. The speed at which something falls will always be between between 9.78 and 9.82 m/s2. These things are unchanging.. (Perhaps the latter part is more math base and relevant, but it's still math.)

 

[hwd45]

It depends on the science. If you mean scientific theory then it is just that, a theory. If you're taking about chemistry or physics then it's math and fact.

For example 2 Hydrogen atoms will always have a polar covalent bond to Oxygen atoms. The speed at which something falls will always be between between 9.78 and 9.82 m/s2. These things are unchanging.. (Perhaps the latter part is more math base and relevant, but it's still math.)

I just want to point out that a scientific theorem and 'theory' as an everyday word are very different. Scientific Theorems are the highest order of scientific acceptance and theories are generally considered correct. There's a possibility that any theory is incorrect but this possibility is unimaginably small.

 

[Midorime]

I just want to point out that a scientific theorem and 'theory' as an everyday word are very different. Scientific Theorems are the highest order of scientific acceptance and theories are generally considered correct. There's a possibility that any theory is incorrect but this possibility is unimaginably small.

Well i was using something general as an example, but thank you.

 

[Kuribotchi]

anyone can find some random article about maths and evolution

https://www.paleolibrarian.info/2012/06/how-mathematics-can-prove-evolution.html

this article is just as accurate as yours Stefan, because maths > scientific "evidence"

 

[TamaMum]

I've been asked by a member to remind everyone that the topic under discussion is "What is Your Religion?"

I am inclined to agree with the member that you guys are starting to pull this thread off topic.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

Yes, thanks for posting this. I created an evolution thread where we can continue: https://www.tamatalk.com/IB/topic/185170-evolution/

 

[indiGOtama]

I consider myself Christian, because I believe in Jesus. I am incredibly, um, liberal(?) about it, though.

Personally, I don't trust that all of the Bible is the word of God - I truly believe that a lot of it was fabricated by man in order to accuse people whom they thought were different and were scared of, and therefore they wanted to persecute. I think a lot of it was also just simply lost in translation.

Here's a site to show what I mean: https://www.boston.com/news/local/articles_of_faith/2009/09/top_ten_worst_b.html

I believe in Jesus and in spirituality, but I think religion itself has a lot of sketchy stuff in it in some places.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

I consider myself Christian, because I believe in Jesus. I am incredibly, um, liberal(?) about it, though.

Personally, I don't trust that all of the Bible is the word of God - I truly believe that a lot of it was fabricated by man in order to accuse people whom they thought were different and were scared of, and therefore they wanted to persecute. I think a lot of it was also just simply lost in translation.

Here's a site to show what I mean: https://www.boston.com/news/local/articles_of_faith/2009/09/top_ten_worst_b.html

I believe in Jesus and in spirituality, but I think religion itself has a lot of sketchy stuff in it in some places.

Well, I can understand you. But if you take into account that things were different in the old Testament, when Jesus was not yet sacrificed for us, then it makes sense to me.

Also, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, people can confirm these things out of the Bible. That's got to count, right?

 

[indiGOtama]

I don't believe it's all a lie, for sure. There are lots of parts I believe in, because I can just feel that it's right. It's just some parts that I'm like um.. Really?!