Homosexuality - what is your view?

[Kajah995]

i'm not sure if you're just saying this in terms applying to all people or if you're relating this to people in this topic, but no one is expressing their beliefs insultingly? they're just voicing their opinion?? i do suppose i agree though.

you're also sort of contradicting yourself. if you say you don't care what others think, then you don't care. obviously you do care if you feel the need to explain your thoughts and you get upset if someone insults gays.

but great post though!! v u v

Firstly, thank you for your compliment

Second: What I mean is, if a person believes being gay is a sin then they can have that belief, and nothing I can say will change that. But if they start "preaching" that all gays are going to hell, repent your sins, you're evil, etc. etc, or something like that, then it becomes insulting and degrading.

If someone had this idea and just said blatantly that they disaprove of it, that's okay too. There's a difference, as you said, between just stating it and saying it insultingly.

Thank you fo rgiving me the oppritunity to clear that up.

 

[Kajah995]

yes,people can have their own opnions of what they believen in, but i dont see anything bad about being "Lgbt" and thats just my opinion .

As do I. I'm just drawing the fine line between stating that you dislike those who are gay, versus preaching bad things about them.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

Erm, according to my beliefs I actually must preach to people about the things that are wrong according to the Bible. And being gay is one of those wrong things.

(Yes, it really is a sin. And if it wasn't, God would have made quite clear in his book that it wasn't).

I may stop here with "preaching"(since I was more saying the facts, and not saying that much what God says about it), but I will NEVER EVER stop preaching it in general, since I'm forced to do so by my belief.(Not even a law will stop me, since GOD>Human Law).

In this thread my tactic was to first show you it's wrong because "Mother Nature" is clearly against it.(Please read all my previous posts). Once you admit this I could perhaps, if you are willing, jump to the next "stage", saying that God is against it too, and tell what else God is against too. I would tell you you could have forgiveness for all your sins, and still have a part in Heaven. Because I am convinced, I have faith that else you will go to the eternal Hell, which really is worse than your worst nightmare.

 

[Kajah995]

Erm, according to my beliefs I actually must preach to people about the things that are wrong according to the Bible. And being gay is one of those wrong things.

(Yes, it really is a sin. And if it wasn't, God would have made quite clear in his book that it wasn't).

I may stop here with "preaching"(since I was more saying the facts, and not saying that much what God says about it), but I will NEVER EVER stop preaching it in general, since I'm forced to do so by my belief.(Not even a law will stop me, since GOD>Human Law).

In this thread my tactic was to first show you it's wrong because "Mother Nature" is clearly against it.(Please read all my previous posts). Once you admit this I could perhaps, if you are willing, jump to the next "stage", saying that God is against it too, and tell what else God is against too. I would tell you you could have forgiveness for all your sins, and still have a part in Heaven. Because I am convinced, I have faith that else you will go to the eternal Hell, which really is worse than your worst nightmare.

You're missing one big piece of the puzzle. What about Atheists and Agnostics?

Here's a good question for your hypothetical Diety:

If he made EVERYTHING, why did he make homosexuals if he didn't approve of it?

Those who are heavily religious are closed minded when if comes to things like what their book says is wrong. To me, to be honest, it's just a book. But that's only my opinion.

If you don't agree with something and just want to simply state: "I don't agree with being gay," that's fine. But once you start pestering people about having to reform, it becomes a major problem.

Try to be moe open minded about this and look at it through our eyes, not just the eyes of the Clergy.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

You're missing one big piece of the puzzle. What about Atheists and Agnostics?

Here's a good question for your hypothetical Diety:

If he made EVERYTHING, why did he make homosexuals if he didn't approve of it?

Those who are heavily religious are closed minded when if comes to things like what their book says is wrong. To me, to be honest, it's just a book. But that's only my opinion.

If you don't agree with something and just want to simply state: "I don't agree with being gay," that's fine. But once you start pestering people about having to reform, it becomes a major problem.

Try to be moe open minded about this and look at it through our eyes, not just the eyes of the Clergy.

The answer to that question is that God gave people the freedom of choice. He wanted them to, unlike robots, follow him freely with all their heart.

God allows bad things to happen else people wouldn't really have a choice.

Anyway, I'm pretty opened minded, and so far every law out the Bible that I can think of at the moment makes sense to me. Either it is something immoral or something that will sew bad things. And as you must have seen, I have clearly a lot of reasons, besides the Bible as well to disagree with it.

Actually to put it quite right, the laws out the Bible just feel like laws, that perhaps even the governmental law would put up, since I understand all why it is forbidden.

I believe it may be that I have still a sense of morality, which I can see is fading quickly in the new generation. For example, a few posts(perhaps pages) back someone said he actually didn't see anything wrong with incest if both had no problem with it, etc... I'm sure there are still some people out there who will agree with me at least on that point, that that's just immoral. But it's not always easy to give a reason. It's just feels naturally wrong.

So the people here who have a sense of morality cannot deny that it is being faded out, and that literally *everything* is getting ok.

I'm convinced that it won't take long anymore before pedophiles will be excepted(or at least much less punished), since it's "natural".

 

[The Ultimate Doomer]

Edit: Forget it. <_<

 

[Kajah995]

I'm convinced that it won't take long anymore before pedophiles will be excepted(or at least much less punished), since it's "natural".

That's going a bit overboard. Pedophilia is a heinous crime, whereas sodomy is nowhere near as bad. It's mutual love between two people, just like a straight relationship.

I'm not asking you to drop all your belief and become Homosexual or anything like that, I'm just asking you to look at things our way. The Christian Church hasn't just told us that we're sinning, in the past we were prosecuted and disregarded as "less than human," so in my eves, saying that homosexuality is a sin is just as bad.

My Grandmother was a very big Christian, and she didn't believe that anything was wrong with homosexuality. Where in the bible did it say that sodomy was bad? If you can give proof then we can talk about it.

 

[dazzilitchigirl]

Erm, according to my beliefs I actually must preach to people about the things that are wrong according to the Bible. And being gay is one of those wrong things.

(Yes, it really is a sin. And if it wasn't, God would have made quite clear in his book that it wasn't).

I may stop here with "preaching"(since I was more saying the facts, and not saying that much what God says about it), but I will NEVER EVER stop preaching it in general, since I'm forced to do so by my belief.(Not even a law will stop me, since GOD>Human Law).

In this thread my tactic was to first show you it's wrong because "Mother Nature" is clearly against it.(Please read all my previous posts). Once you admit this I could perhaps, if you are willing, jump to the next "stage", saying that God is against it too, and tell what else God is against too. I would tell you you could have forgiveness for all your sins, and still have a part in Heaven. Because I am convinced, I have faith that else you will go to the eternal Hell, which really is worse than your worst nightmare.

What reason does the Bible give for being against homosexuality? I'm absolutely not trying to insult you or your religion by saying this, it just might help the discussion if we know why religion forbids homosexuality.

Thinking homosexuality, and other things, are wrong is a natural instinct. People have a lot of natural instincts, ones that most animals can't supress. Anything that comes "naturally" is a human instinct, including your "sense of morality". Morality is not a bad thing at all, it's what keeps us from doing bad things that many other animals wouldn't think twice about. But it's not flawless, and there are some things that we see as immoral even though really, they aren't. I think homosexuality is one of them.

 

[tamagotchialice]

How do you feel about homosexuals that are now straight? Do you see it as a form of self-hate?

Personally, I believe homosexuality is a choice. When I say it, in itself, is a choice, I don't mean being predisposed towards liking your same gender (which I believe is developed at young ages, most likely without conscious consent), but, I mean, the sexual acting out of those desires.

So being straight is a choice? When you were born, was the first sentence you said was, "Mama, I choose to be straight!"?

It is not a choice, and nobody can 'CHOOSE' to be straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc.!

Why do you think it is a choice? If you grew up liking opposite genders, does that mean that gays and lesbians,etc. grew up liking there own gender, and that the second they saw somebody they fell in love?

You can force love, just like you cant force yourself to fly.

Love in natural, and it doesnt matter who you love or what gender they are.

Love is love.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

God created the human as man as wife, and it is clear for me when I read the Bible that that's the natural use and how Gof meant us to be.

But it says in the Bible, that God saw that man was evil naturally, and it says he was sorry that he made man. (You can deny that the majority of the people now on earth are evil: murderers, adultery, ..).

It is man's nature to please himself, which makes him evil.

Anyway, Kayah. There you actually say it: sodomy. Sodomy comes from the Bible(Sodom and Gommorah). God destroyed both thes cities in the Bible because they were so evil. And God said to Abraham that if he could find but 10 good people in it, he would not destroy it. But Abraham didn't find 10.

A bit before it got destroyed 2 angels came to Lot, Abraham's nephew who lived in Sodom, to say that he had to leave with his family because God was going to destroy it. Then the following happened:

4 Before they went to bed' date=' the men of the city of Sodom—everyone from the youngest to the oldest—surrounded the house [sup']5 [/sup]and called to Lot, “Where are the men who arrived tonight? Bring them out to us so that we may know them intimately.”

I used a common english translation, since it isn't as clear in the King James version.

Anyway, it were clearly homosexuals, and God destroyed them all because:

20 Then the Lord said' date=' “The cries of injustice from Sodom and Gomorrah are countless, and their sin is [b']very serious[/b]!

All sin is serious, but I'm pointing out that homosexuality isn't too be mistaken in the Bible as something "ok" are acceptable.

Now in the New Testanment, in a letter of Paul(an apostle):

26 That’s why God abandoned them to degrading lust. Their females traded natural sexual relations for unnatural sexual relations. 27 Also' date=' in the same way, the males traded natural sexual relations with females, and burned with lust for each other. Males performed shameful actions with males, and they were paid back with the penalty they deserved for their mistake in their own bodies.[/quote']If that isn't clear, I don't know it.

There are other verses in the Bible, but I think what I have given Kajah, is clear enough to show that (at least for a Christin) it is a sin. I have given you "proof", so I hope you accept it.

Also, I don't consider homosexuality a worse sin that many other. I find adultery(dicorce and remarriage), for example, on the exact same line.

So God made man evil and gave them choice. But what God wants is that every one chooses for Him voluntarily. It is in that way natural, that people choose sin, that gives them pleasure above a God of which they have no direct proof.

For what glory is there for God, if he "programmed" man to acknowledge his existance and praise.

What God wanted was that there is man and wife and peace on earth, but He allowed people to have choice, and therefore there is no peace, and many things are not as He would want it to be, but He knows this is because he gave man free choice and there natural desire is to do evil.

I hope this can help you understand some of my views and why I'm a Christian.

 

[tamagotchialice]

God created the human as man as wife, and it is clear for me when I read the Bible that that's the natural use and how Gof meant us to be.

But it says in the Bible, that God saw that man was evil naturally, and it says he was sorry that he made man. (You can deny that the majority of the people now on earth are evil: murderers, adultery, ..).

It is man's nature to please himself, which makes him evil.

Anyway, Kayah. There you actually say it: sodomy. Sodomy comes from the Bible(Sodom and Gommorah). God destroyed both thes cities in the Bible because they were so evil. And God said to Abraham that if he could find but 10 good people in it, he would not destroy it. But Abraham didn't find 10.

A bit before it got destroyed 2 angels came to Lot, Abraham's nephew who lived in Sodom, to say that he had to leave with his family because God was going to destroy it. Then the following happened:

I used a common english translation, since it isn't as clear in the King James version.

Anyway, it were clearly homosexuals, and God destroyed them all because:

All sin is serious, but I'm pointing out that homosexuality isn't too be mistaken in the Bible as something "ok" are acceptable.

Now in the New Testanment, in a letter of Paul(an apostle):

If that isn't clear, I don't know it.

There are other verses in the Bible, but I think what I have given Kajah, is clear enough to show that (at least for a Christin) it is a sin. I have given you "proof", so I hope you accept it.

Also, I don't consider homosexuality a worse sin that many other. I find adultery(dicorce and remarriage), for example, on the exact same line.

So God made man evil and gave them choice. But what God wants is that every one chooses for Him voluntarily. It is in that way natural, that people choose sin, that gives them pleasure above a God of which they have no direct proof.

For what glory is there for God, if he "programmed" man to acknowledge his existance and praise.

What God wanted was that there is man and wife and peace on earth, but He allowed people to have choice, and therefore there is no peace, and many things are not as He would want it to be, but He knows this is because he gave man free choice and there natural desire is to do evil.

I hope this can help you understand some of my views and why I'm a Christian.

I can see what you are getting at, but not everybody is Christian.

 

[Ashley Montanae]

So being straight is a choice? When you were born, was the first sentence you said was, "Mama, I choose to be straight!"?

It is not a choice, and nobody can 'CHOOSE' to be straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc.!

Why do you think it is a choice? If you grew up liking opposite genders, does that mean that gays and lesbians,etc. grew up liking there own gender, and that the second they saw somebody they fell in love?

You can force love, just like you cant force yourself to fly.

Love in natural, and it doesnt matter who you love or what gender they are.

Love is love.

Please read what I said to understand, not offer a rebuttal.

Agreed.

Some gays do flaunt their sexuality or use it as an identifier, or have parades, etc. But this definitely does not reflect all gays, and I'm sure it annoys that vast amount of gays who choose not to force their sexuality upon others.

I think it's fine if someone says, "I'm gay," or "I'm straight," but not if they show off the fact that they are gay or straight. That's pretty rude and annoying.

"rude & annoying"? It's about defying privilege. I may not agree with homosexuality but I see their parades on the same level as the parades of my people for, say, Black History Month - we're doing it to say "we're here, you can't make us leave, your hateful words have no place here, etc.".

It's not really "forcing" anything upon anyone in any sense but they're demanding to be acknowledged and everyone deserves to be acknowledged. The gays that don't want a part of that don't have to march.

However, to discuss this further we'd have to delve into the conversation of privilege and self-hatred, and, really, that could go on forever.

 

[Amat Gotchi]

Please read what I said to understand, not offer a rebuttal.

 

"rude & annoying"? It's about defying privilege. I may not agree with homosexuality but I see their parades on the same level as the parades of my people for, say, Black History Month - we're doing it to say "we're here, you can't make us leave, your hateful words have no place here, etc.".

It's not really "forcing" anything upon anyone in any sense but they're demanding to be acknowledged and everyone deserves to be acknowledged. The gays that don't want a part of that don't have to march.

However, to discuss this further we'd have to delve into the conversation of privilege and self-hatred, and, really, that could go on forever.

Nae thank you for pointing this out. There is a time and place for gay parades, etc but I was talking about those who show off the fact that they are gay just because they can.

I do not object to gay parades if they are for their rights which have been trampled upon but it's when people lead rebellions against societies that are different from them that I find objectionable.

Gay pride parades in general I find a little questionable. Gay rights parades are perfectly fine and quite necessary.

 

[Kajah995]

Okay, I think we all need to get on the same page about one thing: No matter how hard we try, we're not gonna change anyone's opinions here.

I personally am Agnostic, but I don't believe in what the Bible says.

I think that some things in the Bible, such as the teachings of Jesus, are very wise words, but others, such as the hate against other people because they differ from the status quo, are completely extreme and uncalled for.

I don't really think the Bible gives a completely clear definition of how things started, for instance. Science has shown the Cosmic Background Radiation is a huge influence on the Big Bang theory's proof, whereas the only place stating that God made things is in a book!

I asked my Christian friend why he thinks God exists. He said he believed God existed because it was in the Bible. I then asked him how he knew the Bible was true. He said, "Because God wrote it." Catch 22. Cyclic proof, which is not really proof at all. You cant prove A with B, then prove B with A! it's impossible to make a logical statement!

I also want to address the issue of gay people and the subsequent parades.

Okay, many people think that with a Gay pride parades are "flaunting," but honestly, open your mind and you'll see that on a daily basis, straightness is flaunted everywhere. Every time a straight couple holds hands in public, that's flaunting. Its telling the world that you're straight. Not only that, but when a straight couple does it, not many people give them a second look, but when a gay couple does it, suddenly it's considered "flaunting."

A gay pride parade is our way of saying, "we're just like you," because honestly, every straight couple holding hands is having their own straight parade that everyone can see.

 

[PrivateSunshine]

I personally think there's nothing wrong with it. I think it's really horrible and unkind for people to bash others for how they were born. I didn't choose to be straight, they didn't choose to be gay. Love is love, and if it's not my personal relationship, it has no affect on my life. Therefore, I'm perfectly okay with people being gay

xoxo,

Pvt. Sunshine

 

[Ashley Montanae]

Nae thank you for pointing this out. There is a time and place for gay parades, etc but I was talking about those who show off the fact that they are gay just because they can.

Just wanna say: You're super amazing, 'cause you called me by the correct name.

I do not object to gay parades if they are for their rights which have been trampled upon but it's when people lead rebellions against societies that are different from them that I find objectionable.

I'm not quite understanding what you're saying here... What rebellions are you referring to? If anything, the straight people have been the ones leading anti-gay crusades for the last few centuries.

Gay pride parades in general I find a little questionable. Gay rights parades are perfectly fine and quite necessary.

What's wrong with gay pride parades? It's OK to parade for demanding gay rights, but, not simply for being gay (with acknowledgement to the hardships homosexuals face everyday in this country)? Why?

I don't mean to come off as demanding or rude, but, I'm simply putting myself in their position - I'd be offended if you told me, after all that African Americans have gone through, that Black Pride parades are "not OK". After all homosexuals have gone through, after there finally being a time in history where it's at least semi-acceptable for them to publicly embrace what they are and have pride in that, why is it wrong?

Do you find it wrong or nonsensical? I feel like there's a difference.

 

[~Dia]

I'm done talking.

what happened to this

((because i was kind of looking forward to this))

 

[dazzilitchigirl]

Stefan Bauwens - do you know why the Bible says what it says about homosexuality? I know you believe what it says and it makes sense to you, but it doesn't make sense to me and there needs to be an explanation so this discussion can progress.

 

[TamaMum]

Stefan Bauwens - do you know why the Bible says what it says about homosexuality? I know you believe what it says and it makes sense to you, but it doesn't make sense to me and there needs to be an explanation so this discussion can progress.

Uh... I believe that Stefan (and various other members) have quoted parts of the Bible that discuss "the sin of man lying with man" - which in today's terms is interpreted by many to indicate a Biblical viewpoint on Homosexuality and the fact that the Bible indicates that it is "abomination".

Moreover, I think Stefan has tried his best to articulate his beliefs and thoughts on homosexuality to those who disagree with him and for this I applaud him - especially since he is posting replies in a language that is not his "mother tongue".

If you look back through the many pages of this topic various members have tried to express / discuss the pros and cons of what is said, why it is said and how it has been interpreted.

I kind of feel that by asking the question "Why?" of a religious book that is based on faith (belief) when the matter has been discussed over and over seems to suggest that you are attempting to begin the whole discussion all over again (which, in my opinion only, is kind of tautological).

I know it is an incredibly long topic now, but perhaps you've missed or misunderstood some of the discussions if you are asking for an explanation "Why?".

 

[booboo1]

(I posted this before I saw TamaMum's reply!)

Stefan Bauwens already explained MANY times what the Bible says about homosexuality. There have been many explanations, please read his posts. Even though I do not agree with him I understand that those are his beliefs! If he wants to follow what the Bible says that is completely okay!!

Kajah995, on 11 Feb 2013 - 16:51, said:

Okay, many people think that with a Gay pride parades are "flaunting," but honestly, open your mind and you'll see that on a daily basis, straightness is flaunted everywhere. Every time a straight couple holds hands in public, that's flaunting. Its telling the world that you're straight. Not only that, but when a straight couple does it, not many people give them a second look, but when a gay couple does it, suddenly it's considered "flaunting."

A gay pride parade is our way of saying, "we're just like you," because honestly, every straight couple holding hands is having their own straight parade that everyone can see.

I do not mind if a gay couple were to hold hands or kiss in public. Since I don't mind homosexuality, it's the same to me as a straight couple kissing!

I'll repeat what I said before. What makes me upset is at the gay parade's everyone is running around almost completely naked or dressed in strange outfits still showing the majority of their skin. I know they are showing their pride, but I do not want to see people like that! I find it completely unnecessary and I think there are much better ways to go about holding a parade such as rainbow flags and signs!! I know some people like to see that as a sign of happiness and pride, but in my opinion I do not enjoy it.

And no, a gay pride parade is not saying "we're just like you." I don't see straight people walking around with only their underwear on throwing a parade. Their parades seem like they're trying to separate themselves from heterosexuals by saying "look at us we're super colourful and half naked!!"

Please don't get me wrong, I love everyone including homosexuals but I just think sometimes,(yes sometimes because no everyone participates in the parades in that sort of manner!!) they take it a little too far!! This is my own opinion and you may not agree but please don't try to prove me wrong because this is just what I think!!

((I'm sorry about messing up the quote box!! D: ))