Equal marriage

[hwd45]

Equal marriage just passed in the House of Lords!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23320624

 

[Nazotchi25]

Aw sweet!

Slowly but surely its moving :3

 

[hwd45]

Looks like gay marriage is finally legal in England and Wales!

https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/job-done-queen-signs-gay-marriage-law-england-and-wales170713

The first gay marriages will take place a year from now.

 

[Nazotchi25]

Looks like gay marriage is finally legal in England and Wales!

https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/job-done-queen-signs-gay-marriage-law-england-and-wales170713

The first gay marriages will take place a year from now.

Yeah! :3

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

I think gay marriage will continue to be legalized worldwide.

Not that I agree with it, not at all actually.

I think that two men, or two women who marry should not get the same right as a normal married couple since they are not the same, they are different. Different people have different rules.

And the one thing that worries me is that gay-marriage allows these people to adopt kids. I am convinced that having homosexual parents is very bad for education. A child needs a father and a mother, not two of them.

What marriage means to me: A promise of both to stay together till death do them part.

But since the allowance of divorce and remarriage, marriage doesn't seem to have much value to me today. I actually think people these days only marry for the benefits they can get out of it, rather that becoming one flesh that's "unable" to be torn in two. And it looks like homosexual couples want to get some of those benefits too and probably don't like being left out.

My conclusion: Marriage for those purposes, (which I think it is), is just selfish and wicked, and has no benefits to society.

EDIT: For my reasons being so against homosexuality is because it's one of the sins. And since I believe the Bible to be the word of God, I cannot agree with it. You can read more in the(locked) homosexuality thread.

 

[nerdbot]

I think that two men, or two women who marry should not get the same right as a normal married couple since they are not the same, they are different. Different people have different rules.

And the one thing that worries me is that gay-marriage allows these people to adopt kids. I am convinced that having homosexual parents is very bad for education. A child needs a father and a mother, not two of them.

What marriage means to me: A promise of both to stay together till death do them part.

But since the allowance of divorce and remarriage, marriage doesn't seem to have much value to me today. I actually think people these days only marry for the benefits they can get out of it, rather that becoming one flesh that's "unable" to be torn in two. And it looks like homosexual couples want to get some of those benefits too and probably don't like being left out.

My conclusion: Marriage for those purposes, (which I think it is), is just selfish and wicked, and has no benefits to society.

EDIT: For my reasons being so against homosexuality is because it's one of the sins. And since I believe the Bible to be the word of God, I cannot agree with it. You can read more in the(locked) homosexuality thread.

Aside from gender, what is much different?

As a pre-service teacher, I strongly disagree that homosexual parents are bad for education. I fail to see why having two parents of the same gender would be much different. Children are able to have role models everywhere. If a child has two mothers, that child is still able to have male role models in their life. That person can be an uncle, a coach, or a teacher. All children have needs, but those needs are all met in different ways. That said, how those needs are met is irrelevant; rather, it is important whether those needs are met or not.

Children do not need a mother and father together at once. Do you realize that there are several single parents raising children too? What about those families with an absent father? Or a distant mother? Those children come out just fine. Cases like those are a lot more common than you think.

Now answer me this: How are marriages beneficial to society? My friend's sister got married this past weekend. Am I benefitting from their marriage in any way? No. Am I happy for them? Yes. Is it my business what they choose from their life? Not at all.

That said, the reason for pushing marriage equality is the benefits between two individuals to promote healthy and happy living. Those same benefits are already given to heterosexual couples. You don't know what you have until it's gone! I highly recommend that you read this link here - it gives facts about marriage, and the legal bindings behind it.

One benefit in particular really stands out to me: "In a time of crisis, spouses have hospital visitation rights."

What if your partner was critically injured in the hospital? How would you feel if you weren't able to see your partner simply because of a title?

I agree with how important marriage is between two individuals - the promise of commitment. With remarriage on the rise, I think that marriage should be even more valued than how it is today. If anything, you should treasure it even more. I disagree that same-sex marriage is selfish and wicked. I think those who restrict others to follow their hearts are being a bit selfish - especially when they are celebrating love.

Realize that homosexual relationships and heterosexual relationships have more similarities than differences. The sorts of problems they face are the same. They get over the same disagreements, and they celebrate the same things.

It is okay if you do not want to have a gay marriage. That said, don't get one, but don't inhibit others from the ability to get married themselves.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

Children do not need a mother and father together at once. Do you realize that there are several single parents raising children too? What about those families with an absent father? Or a distant mother? Those children come out just fine. Cases like those are a lot more common than you think.

I think here is where I disagree. These kids don't turn out fine, and I also don't believe they're as happy as a child who has both parents.

Also, when I said that marriages in those cases are selfish and wicked I was also talking about hetero marriages.

 

[hwd45]

I think here is where I disagree. These kids don't turn out fine, and I also don't believe they're as happy as a child who has both parents.

Also, when I said that marriages in those cases are selfish and wicked I was also talking about hetero marriages.

Sometimes there are things that you can have a belief or opinion on, same-sex marriage being one of these things. Facts, however, are not to be disputed, and this is one of those times, I feel.
I mean, homosexuality is against your beliefs, so I fully understand why you feel that, but there's absolutely no evidence that homosexual parents or having two parents of one gender has an effect on the children. Like, no evidence whatsoever. There's even evidence to suggest that gay parents have 'healthier' and 'happier' children:

https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/gay-parents-have-happier-healthier-kids-straights050613

 

[ciara683]

funny someone says that having no male role model (only 2 moms) or having no female role model ( only 2 dads)

is wrong?

its the same as having a single parent.....

I grew up without a father and turned out fine thanks.

 

[ForeverWaiting]

I didn't have a father figure until I was ten, my mom did just fine if you ask me, and there is nothing wrong with homosexual marriage as long as they love each other that's all that matters, my cousin has two moms (it's complicated but in short he was conceived before his mom found out she would rather be with girls, and has been with her partner ever since) and he is just fine. You don't need to have both parents to raise a child all you need is one caring parent or a supportive family.

I am overly thrilled for the LGBT community as several of my close friends belong there, they are people just like all of us. As I say it doesn't matter what team you shoot for as long as you take the shot. As long as they are happy, then who is any one else to judge? How would you feel if there was done law against virtual pets, because some group feels they are unnatural? It's not fair, so who is anyone to say that two loving people can not marry? If second cousins can marry, if people can marry for money or status, or is dogs can get married why can't two loving people? It shouldn't matter what body parts they have those are not the definitions of gender in my opinion

 

[Midorime]

I grew up without my mother and I turned out fine, if not a little dingy in the head at times. My mother was toxic and dangerous, though, but that's a different story.

Research has shown that having parents of the same gender does not affect the child negatively in any way. Only thing that might happen is bullying from people that do not understand, or being put down by those who feel it's wrong. It's not the fault of the child they have gay/lesbian parents, people need to stop picking on them for that. They are loved, that's all that matters. They were adopted and now have an actual home. Isn't that supposed to be a good thing, the fact that someone opened their arms, life, and home to them?

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

I don't really care what (false) studies there are. It's as simple as this: A child needs information/care/treatment it can "only" get from a male and a child needs information/care/treatment it can only get of the female.

Also, I could call it actually even discriminating for the kid, because he's forced to be limited to one gender as parents.

-snip-

As long as they are happy, then who is any one else to judge? How would you feel if there was done law against virtual pets, because some group feels they are unnatural? It's not fair, so who is anyone to say that two loving people can not marry?

-snip-

Well, if you would believe in a God(and even if you don't), I'm sure you'd agree it would have to be his judgement that counts, since he's the one who decides what the morals are. Anyway, God is against the sin of homosexuality.

 

[ForeverWaiting]

And that's your opinion. 100 years ago, it was said that women shouldn't have equal rights that they belong at home bearing children raising them cooking and cleaning. Look at the world today, I see families with the stay at home dad, with the single working mom, the single working dad, it really shouldn't matter how many moms or dads or aunts or uncles someone has, as long as they are in a caring and loving home. And on a side note have you ever really gotten to know a homosexual individual? Because of the plenty that I call friends they are all really nice, caring, loving people. Is that not ideal? And a mom can play the role of mom and dad I've seen it happen, body parts don't determine what one can learn from someone (okay yes, dads giving the puberty tal into girls would be awkward but isn't that what a supportive family and supporve friends are for? )

In short equal marriage rights have long since been in motion, and religion and law are two very different things, I'd like to see an argument against equal marriage that doesn't involve religion

 

[hwd45]

I don't really care what (false) studies there are.

Generally if you want to claim that something's false you need evidence against it. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean you can claim it false :/

In short equal marriage rights have long since been in motion, and religion and law are two very different things, I'd like to see an argument against equal marriage that doesn't involve religion

One sentence has never had so much meaning :3

 

[ForeverWaiting]

Hwd45 ^^

I agree with its 100% in the world of science you can't claim something is false without performing your own research on the topic, following the proper unbiased scientific method, and then only then if you find results that don't support the hypothesis then and only then you can say you got other results, and maybe the original party may review their methods but even then you can't say their results are wrong... That's like arguing 2 + 2 can equal 100.

And thank you, religion plays a huge role (far too large in my opinion) in various controversial topics. The second religion is involved rational thought leaves the mind and all thoughts are irrational emotional thoughts protecting ones believes. There are hundreds of religions, no one is more " right" than the other so unless all religion so get an equal say, (which they don't, never have) then none should be able to input

 

[Midorime]

Going slightly off topic but still related here:

There are some cultures around the world where a woman marries several men (polyandry), and cultures where a man marries several women (polygyny). If I remember correctly, in the past Christians used to practice polygamy until Saint Augustine basically got upset about the idea of it and essentially pushed to ban it. Catholics abolished it, but Mormons still practice it. All believe in God.

Also in Islamic culture in some countries it is still practiced, though strictly as polygyny. Prophet Muhammed even had many wives.

Stating this, I don't see the harm in the fact a man can marry a man or a woman can marry a woman. It's also practiced in other cultures as well and not a single person questions it--it is a part of their way of life and is as normal as breathing.

So the fact that some cultures who believe in God and can have polygamy doesn't mean that same sex marriage is allowed? I thought polygamy wasn't allowed? I know it's not by law of our country, but religiously? All believe in God, but all have different views.

Then who's to say what Christian/God-worshipping religion is true in regards to marriage and other views? What if a religion that does worship God and believes in same sex marriage or even polygamy is the real one and you're wrong?

But that's the thing, you don't know if you're wrong. No one does. So they all try to separate and say they're right and control others with fear and supposed 'sins.' It may be wrong, or it may be right, but regardless, someone doesn't have the right to make others miserable and refuse them the rights everyone else has.

EDIT: Sorry if any of that seemed disjointed, having a hard time getting thoughts right in my head to put out on the board.

 

[x.//StoryTeller//.x]

Mini mod coming through. This discussion is similar to a fire. Fire can be helpful to cook food or to keep warm, just as this thread is helpful to give us all a chance to speak from our hearts and express ourselves. However, if handled improperly, the fire can grow and cause damage. Please handle this fire properly guys. I know y'all are capable of doing so.

(If you've seen me around then you know oh my gosh that was like the first time I sounded useful)

I'm going to add on something else to this discussion, on what Stephen said about a child's life of having two dads or two moms.

I would love to have a daughter when I grow up and am married. But I'm afraid of how her life would be affected by something that wasn't even her fault. What would the other kids at school say to her if they find out she has two moms? Will she be bullied and do nothing? Will she lie and say she has a dad? Will she not understand why she doesn't have a dad and be confused? If she does stand up for herself, will she be able to tell the difference between discrimination and someone simply standing up for what they believe in? What if she loses a friend for mistaking someone with strong beliefs as a bigot, just like I did?

 

[Midorime]

Oh now I remember why I had that mindset/scenario/question: that despite the marriage constructions, be it same sex or polygamy or anything like that, the children do well if the family is a close and loving one.

would love to have a daughter when I grow up and am married. But I'm afraid of how her life would be affected by something that wasn't even her fault. What would the other kids at school say to her if they find out she has two moms? Will she be bullied and do nothing? Will she lie and say she has a dad? Will she not understand why she doesn't have a dad and be confused? If she does stand up for herself, will she be able to tell the difference between discrimination and someone simply standing up for what they believe in? What if she loses a friend for mistaking someone with strong beliefs as a bigot, just like I did?

I think all parents worry about this, but not just about marriage/being gay. I'm sure they worry about what their kids think about them with the jobs they have, their financial situation, etc. There are a multitude of reasons for parents to worry about their kids, and trust me, bullies will find anything and everything to make fun of and there's not much one can do about it, sadly. All you can do is show your child love and show that it's okay to be yourself no matter what anyone says and that people who discriminate are not worth their time or effort.

 

[nerdbot]

Mini mod coming through. This discussion is similar to a fire. Fire can be helpful to cook food or to keep warm, just as this thread is helpful to give us all a chance to speak from our hearts and express ourselves. However, if handled improperly, the fire can grow and cause damage. Please handle this fire properly guys. I know y'all are capable of doing so.

(If you've seen me around then you know oh my gosh that was like the first time I sounded useful)

I'm going to add on something else to this discussion, on what Stephen said about a child's life of having two dads or two moms.

I would love to have a daughter when I grow up and am married. But I'm afraid of how her life would be affected by something that wasn't even her fault. What would the other kids at school say to her if they find out she has two moms? Will she be bullied and do nothing? Will she lie and say she has a dad? Will she not understand why she doesn't have a dad and be confused? If she does stand up for herself, will she be able to tell the difference between discrimination and someone simply standing up for what they believe in? What if she loses a friend for mistaking someone with strong beliefs as a bigot, just like I did?

You have to remember that hate is learned. Everyone has a responsibility to ensure that the school environment is a safe place. That includes teachers, students (and their friends), parents, coaches, secretaries, etc.

Sometimes it can be as simple as a misunderstanding, or just due to a lack of education. As Midorime mentioned above, bullying mainly stems from the abnormal.

Having said that, many schools are LGBTQ friendly, and strive to create a safe space. These sort of issues do come up in elementary settings, but are very easily dealt with. In junior high and high school, teachers are made aware of bully behaviour and must take measures against it. There are more solutions than you think.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

ForeverWaiting, please check the locked homosexual topic for other reasons. I think that question was asked multiple times there, and I answered it multiple times. And, yes, I know a lesbian person(online) quite well. I know she is very friendly and she knows my views too. But most people who commit sin are friendly. That doesn't justify themself.

Anyway, I've said my reasons, and this isn't the homosexual topic, so much more there isn't to add from me.

Mirdorime: Yes people in the Bible have practiced it, but it was never said to be a good thing. And I think if you read these reasons, you will have to agree with me that anyway with the Bible in his hand saying polygamy is okay, has got it just wrong:

God gave Adam one wife made from his own flesh. This is used even by Jesus to say that marriage is between male and female and that they become one flesh(Matthew 19:4-6):

He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”

(Becoming one flesh with multiple wives is pretty hard imo). Also when a man had more than one wife in the Bible, there was always arguing between them.

In Deuternomy 17:17, when they talk about a king:

17 And he shall not acquire many wives for himself, lest his heart turn away, nor shall he acquire for himself excessive silver and gold.

If it will turn a king's heart away from God, it counts for normal people as well.

In 1 Corinthians7:2

But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.

(Note that it doesn't say wives or husbands.)

And there are more verses, but to me it's obvious: God doesn't want divorced people to remarry, people to marry multiple wives and people to practice [SIZE=11.818181991577148px]homosexuality[/SIZE].