Homosexuality - what is your view?

[sweetpea40998]

Actually it isn't quite right what he says. It's not enough to believe and all. You must besides that also repent of your sins and do them no more.

Anyway I think I have proven enough with previous posts in this thread that homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible.

So if you want to be a Christian it is obvious you gave to repent of the sin(if you commit it) and be against it.

Exactly.

 

[Amat Gotchi]

I really didn't say that it's somehow ok to sin anyway(sorry if my text gave that impression ), but I haven't in fact even mentioned my views yet, on whether I think homosexuality actually is right or wrong.

According to the bible, those who are saved are those who believes in, and accepts Jesus Christ as their saviour and God, trusts his word and that he is the only way to the father, right?

I think everyone who is a good person will be saved (why is one's religion that important compared to someone else's?) but yes, although the Bible says some things about homosexuality, it says a good deal more about other criteria for Christians, such as forgiveness, gratitude, generosity...

Someone's religion should not be defined by others. I'm saying: I am a Christian and support homosexuals. No one has to, but someone's religion is their own (after all, every religion has many variations), is a way of life, and is not really others' problem. So, please don't criticize people's faith based on whether or not they support homosexuality, it gets really cutthroat.

That said, my opinion is that it is perfectly acceptable for a Christian to accept homosexuals, or not, as he or she so chooses.

And that's why homosexuality is fine by me.

 

[Jokus]

Someone's religion should not be defined by others. I'm saying: I am a Christian and support homosexuals. No one has to, but someone's religion is their own (after all, every religion has many variations), is a way of life, and is not really others' problem. So, please don't criticize people's faith based on whether or not they support homosexuality, it gets really cutthroat.

I apologise, I really didn't mean to criticize anyone...

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

I think everyone who is a good person will be saved (why is one's religion that important compared to someone else's?) but yes, although the Bible says some things about homosexuality, it says a good deal more about other criteria for Christians, such as forgiveness, gratitude, generosity...

Someone's religion should not be defined by others. I'm saying: I am a Christian and support homosexuals. No one has to, but someone's religion is their own (after all, every religion has many variations), is a way of life, and is not really others' problem. So, please don't criticize people's faith based on whether or not they support homosexuality, it gets really cutthroat.

That said, my opinion is that it is perfectly acceptable for a Christian to accept homosexuals, or not, as he or she so chooses.

And that's why homosexuality is fine by me.

Your opinion is not based of the Bible, but apparently on what you think. Also about that the Bible is clear: Do not lean on your own understanding.

The BIble says 1. that and 2. that homosexuals are sinners.

I proved with the Bible that it is wrong to support it as a Christian. Prove to me, if you think you need to defend yourself, that the Bible says otherwise.

If you cannot you must admit that it is not christian to do so.

 

[Amat Gotchi]

Your opinion is not based of the Bible, but apparently on what you think. Also about that the Bible is clear: Do not lean on your own understanding.

The BIble says 1. that and 2. that homosexuals are sinners.

I proved with the Bible that it is wrong to support it as a Christian. Prove to me, if you think you need to defend yourself, that the Bible says otherwise.

If you cannot you must admit that it is not christian to do so.

I am able to admit that it is not Christian to some people. It is not Christian to you and many other Christians. But it is Christian to me and to plenty of other Christians. Religion is a subjective thing, thus the Bible is not full proof that something is right or wrong. Doesn't it also say that a woman who comes to the front of a church is commiting a grave sin against God? That women must obey men? The Bible is inspired by God, but written by people, and the people who wrote it didn't have advice from God for every single word. i'm not refuting the Bible, but there are some things in there that, as Archbishop Tutu says, "you must take with a grain of salt."

Oh, and Jokus, what I said wasn't supposed to be included in my reply to one of your posts, it's just to some of the topic in general.

I am sorry if this is a bit off-topic, and if it offends anyone, but it's just my opinion.

To be a bit more on-topic:

most people who are gay do not say so in front of other people. The outspoken gays are the ones you hear about (and may be annoyed or offended by). It is a bit irksome when hearing of "proud gays" who try to force their sexuality upon others, but it's silly to think that's the way all gays are.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

I am able to admit that it is not Christian to some people. It is not Christian to you and many other Christians. But it is Christian to me and to plenty of other Christians. Religion is a subjective thing, thus the Bible is not full proof that something is right or wrong. Doesn't it also say that a woman who comes to the front of a church is commiting a grave sin against God? That women must obey men? The Bible is inspired by God, but written by people, and the people who wrote it didn't have advice from God for every single word. i'm not refuting the Bible, but there are some things in there that, as Archbishop Tutu says, "you must take with a grain of salt."

Oh, and Jokus, what I said wasn't supposed to be included in my reply to one of your posts, it's just to some of the topic in general.

I am sorry if this is a bit off-topic, and if it offends anyone, but it's just my opinion.

To be a bit more on-topic:

most people who are gay do not say so in front of other people. The outspoken gays are the ones you hear about (and may be annoyed or offended by). It is a bit irksome when hearing of "proud gays" who try to force their sexuality upon others, but it's silly to think that's the way all gays are.

Aha, so because there are some rules in the BIble that you don't like, you will take them with a "grain of salt"?

The Bible does say that woman have to obey they're husbands. I can't recall the other rule(perhaps you could give me the verse).

And what's wrong with that. God made the man to be the head of a family. And of course it doesn't mean that if a man says his wife to do something wrong, like a sin or something stupid like:dance on one leg or that kind of nonsense that she must do it. God has a reason for everything, but if you pick out of the Bible only what you like, and take the stuff you don't with a "grain of salt" then that's wrong.

Just tell me, when it says in the Bible that a gay is an abomination, how must I see this after taking it with "a grain of salt"?

This Tutu is a biased person as well. He is for gay-rights and against the "discrimination" of the Bible. Take the Bible with a grain of salt? Why? So it can fit how you want it to be. Please people, stop calling yourself a christian if you don't agree with what the Bible says.

I will say it once more: PAUL, one of the first TRUE christians, who started it all said himself that being a homosexual is a wrong thing. If you disagree, please call yourself something else. "The believeing-in-what-I-want-out-of-the-bible-group", instead of christians or so.

 

[Amat Gotchi]

Aha, so because there are some rules in the BIble that you don't like, you will take them with a "grain of salt"?

The Bible does say that woman have to obey they're husbands. I can't recall the other rule(perhaps you could give me the verse).

And what's wrong with that. God made the man to be the head of a family. And of course it doesn't mean that if a man says his wife to do something wrong, like a sin or something stupid like:dance on one leg or that kind of nonsense that she must do it. God has a reason for everything, but if you pick out of the Bible only what you like, and take the stuff you don't with a "grain of salt" then that's wrong.

Just tell me, when it says in the Bible that a gay is an abomination, how must I see this after taking it with "a grain of salt"?

This Tutu is a biased person as well. He is for gay-rights and against the "discrimination" of the Bible. Take the Bible with a grain of salt? Why? So it can fit how you want it to be. Please people, stop calling yourself a christian if you don't agree with what the Bible says.

I will say it once more: PAUL, one of the first TRUE christians, who started it all said himself that being a homosexual is a wrong thing. If you disagree, please call yourself something else. "The believeing-in-what-I-want-out-of-the-bible-group", instead of christians or so.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35 says "as in all the churches of the holy ones, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. But if they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church."

No one is perfect. Even Paul may have written something incorrectly.

There are various groups of Christians. There are thousands of denominations, some base themselves more heavily on what is (verbatim) written in the Bible, while others use Christianity as a set of guidelines. I am currently part of the latter group, you seem more part of the former group; but let all Christians coexist with different personal views. The medieval Christians engaged in self-flagellation and believed that was holy, though that is usually discouraged today. We are of different Christian denominations, let that be known, but also we are different people. Different people have different opinions, regardless of their religion or background, and please consider that as well.

[Archbishop Tutu also helped end apartheid in South Africa.] Nowhere did I say that you're not a Christian, or that your beliefs are wrong. As a matter of fact, it is good to have diversity of beliefs and ideas in the Christian faith. Please treat me the same way, allowing me to have my own opinions and you yours.

Many homosexuals feel guilty about being homosexual, and they feel lost. I hope some kind of faith will give them consolation.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

I'm afraid that I cannot live in peace with that fact. If you read the Bible as an uninfluenced, unbiased person, you will not get the impression that it is to be taken lightly, with a "grain of salt" or as guidelines. No, it says you must take it very seriously and do as it says.

So the group that takes the Bible as guidelines is anyway in conflict with the Bible. It actually does not make sense and is ridiculous.

I hope there are still some people with a clear mind to acknowledge this.

Nobody's perfect? That's another cheap way to take anything out that you don't like.

he term "Christian" is also used adjectivally to describe anything associated with Christianity, or in a proverbial sense "all that is noble, and good, and Christ-like."[3] It is also used as a label to identify people who associate with the cultural aspects of Christianity, irrespective of personal religious beliefs or practices.

I took that from Wikipedia. And now stuff start making sense. It actually says the true definition of a Christian has been destroyed: to name something what is actually isn't.

Well, I am not part of that group, and instead of making up a new name like "true christian", I suggest the abusers of that word invent a new one.

 

[Jokus]

Oh, and Jokus, what I said wasn't supposed to be included in my reply to one of your posts, it's just to some of the topic in general.

I am sorry if this is a bit off-topic, and if it offends anyone, but it's just my opinion.

Oh, that's nice to hear. I was thinking that my english probably was clumsy again, and that I was being misunderstood. Or that I had been outright mean without being aware of it...

Anyways I think both of you (Amat and Stefan) has some good points, but please try to not be too harsh on each other... ^_^

 

[Amat Gotchi]

Aha, so because there are some rules in the BIble that you don't like, you will take them with a "grain of salt"?

The Bible does say that woman have to obey they're husbands. I can't recall the other rule(perhaps you could give me the verse).

And what's wrong with that. God made the man to be the head of a family. And of course it doesn't mean that if a man says his wife to do something wrong, like a sin or something stupid like:dance on one leg or that kind of nonsense that she must do it. God has a reason for everything, but if you pick out of the Bible only what you like, and take the stuff you don't with a "grain of salt" then that's wrong.

Just tell me, when it says in the Bible that a gay is an abomination, how must I see this after taking it with "a grain of salt"?

This Tutu is a biased person as well. He is for gay-rights and against the "discrimination" of the Bible. Take the Bible with a grain of salt? Why? So it can fit how you want it to be. Please people, stop calling yourself a christian if you don't agree with what the Bible says.

I will say it once more: PAUL, one of the first TRUE christians, who started it all said himself that being a homosexual is a wrong thing. If you disagree, please call yourself something else. "The believeing-in-what-I-want-out-of-the-bible-group", instead of christians or so.

I'm afraid that I cannot live in peace with that fact. If you read the Bible as an uninfluenced, unbiased person, you will not get the impression that it is to be taken lightly, with a "grain of salt" or as guidelines. No, it says you must take it very seriously and do as it says.

So the group that takes the Bible as guidelines is anyway in conflict with the Bible. It actually does not make sense and is ridiculous.

I hope there are still some people with a clear mind to acknowledge this.

Nobody's perfect? That's another cheap way to take anything out that you don't like.

I took that from Wikipedia. And now stuff start making sense. It actually says the true definition of a Christian has been destroyed: to name something what is actually isn't.

Well, I am not part of that group, and instead of making up a new name like "true christian", I suggest the abusers of that word invent a new one.

Stefan, can you please stop taking this so harshly? I am not defacing your views, just engaging in "informed debate," but whenever I say something, you start treating this like CSI!

How 'bout using the name of your denomination as the term, since each Christian faith has different views and practices? (me, Episcopal, but thinking about switching to Methodist or Lutheran) And by supporting homosexuals, I am not "abusing" the word. Maybe the Wikipedia definition has a point?

If I read the Bible as a totally uninfluenced person, I would have no idea what the words meant and would probably misinterpret them. Some of the phrases listed in there sound pretty harsh, not to mention the wording very strange. The original ideas can be lost in translation. Do you remember how the Pharisees focused on the letter of the law but not the spirit of the law?

However, I think it is perfectly ok to, whatever religion you are, be against homosexuality, as long as you tolerate, and are gracious toward, homosexuals themselves.

 

[LeaChaos]

I do not like this topic. People get too critical about it and it starts getting all religous.

Homosexuality is about love. Be it between two women or two men who love each other.

Do you really have the right to deny another human being the right to love?!

I personally do not care if the bible says that homosexuals are sinners. I am Christian and I fully support gays.

This topic upsets me. Many of my good friends are homosexuals and if their rights to love were taken away from any of them...

 

[Jokus]

I do not like this topic. People get too critical about it and it starts getting all religous.

Homosexuality is about love. Be it between two women or two men who love each other.

Do you really have the right to deny another human being the right to love?!

I personally do not care if the bible says that homosexuals are sinners. I am Christian and I fully support gays.

This topic upsets me. Many of my good friends are homosexuals and if their rights to love were taken away from any of them...

I really don't think that anyone here is against the right for all people, homosexuals included, to love somebody. However it's a different matter whether it's morally right for two people of the same gender to live together as a couple and well... do what couples do.

Of course no one really denys homosexuals love, but really, sex and love must be separated, and anyone should, if the reasons are good enough, be able to manage living without the earlier one.

 

[sweetpea40998]

Ok, here's the thing. If you are a real Christian, you would follow the Bible and do as it says. If you call yourself a Christian, but completely ignore the facts and rule in the Bible, you aren't really a Christian. At that point, you have made up your own religion. Choosing your own rules out of the Bible that you like, making up your own rules, yeah that's making your own religion. Do NOT call yourself a Christian if you do not follow the Bible!!!!!

 

[LeaChaos]

Ok, here's the thing. If you are a real Christian, you would follow the Bible and do as it says. If you call yourself a Christian, but completely ignore the facts and rule in the Bible, you aren't really a Christian. At that point, you have made up your own religion. Choosing your own rules out of the Bible that you like, making up your own rules, yeah that's making your own religion. Do NOT call yourself a Christian if you do not follow the Bible!!!!!

*removed * - site rules - keep it on topic please - see previous posts regarding this matter: https://www.tamatalk.com/IB/topic/181552-homosexuality-what-is-your-view/page__st__120#entry3194683

Back on topic: I am just voicing my own personal opinion.

I see nothing wrong with homosexual couples being able to have sex. They are not hurting anyone and do not have to worry about unexpected pregnancy, which is a big thing most heterosexual couples try to avoid. I just think that homosexual couples should be treated with the same amount of respect as heterosexual couples.

Equality and non-segregation.

 

[Kuribotchi]

***Removed***

I believe homosexuality is fine, and I am an LGBT Supporter 100% even though I am straight.

 

[sweetpea40998]

*removed - site rules*

Nope, not for the fact you support gays. But for the fact that you do not give a crap about what the Bible says. And I didn't necessarily say you aren't a Christian. I said that Christians follow the Bible and care about what it says. But hey, if you don't, then maybe you really aren't a Christian. But that isn't up to me to decide. That's up to God.

Edit: oh, and I wasn't talking directly to you. I was speaking in a general sense. But hey, if the shoe fits...

on topic: Just to clear things up, I do not hate gays. I don't shun them just because I believe what they are doing is wrong. So no, I do not hate gays, but I do not approve of what they do. That was my whole point here.

 

[TamaMum]

Ok, here's the thing. If you are a real Christian, you would follow the Bible and do as it says. If you call yourself a Christian, but completely ignore the facts and rule in the Bible, you aren't really a Christian. At that point, you have made up your own religion. Choosing your own rules out of the Bible that you like, making up your own rules, yeah that's making your own religion. Do NOT call yourself a Christian if you do not follow the Bible!!!!!

Nope, not for the fact you support gays. But for the fact that you do not give a crap about what the Bible says. And I didn't necessarily say you aren't a Christian. I said that Christians follow the Bible and care about what it says. But hey, if you don't, then maybe you really aren't a Christian. But that isn't up to me to decide. That's up to God.

Edit: oh, and I wasn't talking directly to you. I was speaking in a general sense. But hey, if the shoe fits...

on topic: Just to clear things up, I do not hate gays. I don't shun them just because I believe what they are doing is wrong. So no, I do not hate gays, but I do not approve of what they do. That was my whole point here.

It is difficult to understand why you claim you were not implying another member was not a Christian when your previous quote seems to make it pretty clear that you do not consider them to be a "real" Christian.

If you do not wish to be misunderstood, it would be wise to choose your words more carefully - and to remember to keep the tone of your replies within the site rules - friendly and respectful - and within the rules for this sub forum - mature and sensible.

Leviticus 18:22 - "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

I wonder if you realise that it is generally believed that Leviticus is a "code" for holy living written around 3,000 years ago? And that it is literally impossible to apply ALL the instructions detailed to every day life in the 21st century?

Do you also believe that (as Leviticus / The Bible says) that homosexuals should be executed? That it is also a sin for anyone to lie with their own wife during her monthly menses? That anyone who does should be shunned (put apart) by society?

How would that work, exactly?

Leviticus 19 also includes prohibitions against round haircuts, tattoos, working on the Sabbath, wearing garments of mixed fabrics, eating pork or shellfish, getting your fortune told, and even playing with the skin of a pig (football, anyone?).

Do you wear garments of mixed fabrics in your everyday life? Do you ever eat pork or shellfish (bacon sandwich, wine gums/chewing gum/liquorice)? Do you ever play football / play instruments like drums / tamborines, use crayons for drawing?

Just some things for you to consider carefully before you suggest that others are not "real" Christians

Interesting link to think over: https://leviticusbans.tumblr.com/post/23730370413/76-things-banned-in-leviticus

You're welcome to your own interpretation of what The Bible says of course, but many others need more than "because the Bible says so" to justify certain things in the world today and it's unrealistic to consider yourself superior (a "real" Christian) because you follow everything literally and because others interpret and translate The Bible in a different way.

 

[sweetpea40998]

I wonder if you realise that it is generally believed that Leviticus is a "code" for holy living written around 3,000 years ago? And that it is literally impossible to apply ALL the instructions detailed to every day life in the 21st century?

Do you also believe that (as Leviticus / The Bible says) that homosexuals should be executed? That it is also a sin for anyone to lie with their own wife during her monthly menses? That anyone who does should be shunned (put apart) by society?

How would that work, exactly?

Most of the rules in Leviticus are for spiritual health and physical health. Being gay is not only a sin spiritually, but also harmful physically. It is horrible for your health. And when it says "put to death," I think it is in a spiritual sense. I don't have all the answers, I am just saying what the Bible says. I am not God, I do not know all the answers, I just do what the Bible tells me to.

Also, I do not hate gays, I am not mean to gays, etc, so don't be under that impression. I just think it is a sin, and God does not approve. The Bible says it is a bad lifestyle. The Bible is my set of rules, and I do not believe they are rules for no reason. God gives us those rules to protect our physical and spiritual health. That's why I follow them. It is their choice if they wish not to listen to God. They will pay for it one way or another eventually.

I am not saying that I am perfect, but I try my best to do what I am supposed to. If other people choose not to try to, that is their decision and it can't be helped. It is between them and God at that point. The point of this thread was asking opinions on homosexuals, and I gave my opinion, and gave legit reasons why I believe the way I do.

Edit: also, yes I am aware of what it says about those things.

 

[Kuribotchi]

Most of the rules in Leviticus are for spiritual health and physical health. Being gay is not only a sin spiritually, but also harmful physically. It is horrible for your health. And when it says "put to death," I think it is in a spiritual sense. I don't have all the answers, I am just saying what the Bible says. I am not God, I do not know all the answers, I just do what the Bible tells me to.

Also, I do not hate gays, I am not mean to gays, etc, so don't be under that impression. I just think it is a sin, and God does not approve. The Bible says it is a bad lifestyle. The Bible is my set of rules, and I do not believe they are rules for no reason. God gives us those rules to protect our physical and spiritual health. That's why I follow them. It is their choice if they wish not to listen to God. They will pay for it one way or another eventually.

I am not saying that I am perfect, but I try my best to do what I am supposed to. If other people choose not to try to, that is their decision and it can't be helped. It is between them and God at that point. The point of this thread was asking opinions on homosexuals, and I gave my opinion, and gave legit reasons why I believe the way I do.

Edit: also, yes I am aware of what it says about those things.

Being gay is not a lifestyle, and I do not believe your reasons were legitimate. A lifestyle is chosen, sure, there might be what some people call a "gay lifestyle" however not all gay people follow it. Gay people do not choose to be gay. :}

 

[Jokus]

Most of the rules in Leviticus are for spiritual health and physical health. Being gay is not only a sin spiritually, but also harmful physically. It is horrible for your health. And when it says "put to death," I think it is in a spiritual sense. I don't have all the answers, I am just saying what the Bible says. I am not God, I do not know all the answers, I just do what the Bible tells me to.

Also, I do not hate gays, I am not mean to gays, etc, so don't be under that impression. I just think it is a sin, and God does not approve. The Bible says it is a bad lifestyle. The Bible is my set of rules, and I do not believe they are rules for no reason. God gives us those rules to protect our physical and spiritual health. That's why I follow them. It is their choice if they wish not to listen to God. They will pay for it one way or another eventually.

I am not saying that I am perfect, but I try my best to do what I am supposed to. If other people choose not to try to, that is their decision and it can't be helped. It is between them and God at that point. The point of this thread was asking opinions on homosexuals, and I gave my opinion, and gave legit reasons why I believe the way I do.

Edit: also, yes I am aware of what it says about those things.

Do you think all gay people will be punished for being gay? How about the rest of us sinners, and what happened to forgiveness?