Homosexuality - what is your view?

[Amat Gotchi]

I accept that you are against homosexuality, Stefan. I have no problem with that. What I do have an issue with is that you are getting pretty voracious with this topic and seem to be telling the entire LGBT-accepting Christian population that they are sinning by merely saying it's ok to be gay, calling them unChristian. Lets keep it friendly ok?

But for e sake of a good old fashioned debate, why is it considered a sin in the Bible to be gay? We are supposed to inteligently follow God and need to have a reason for following His laws besides "God said so," or else what reason do we have to follow God?

And nowhere did I say to do whatever you want as a Christian. I said that whatever you do without love in your heart is a sin. We have a conscience for a reason :^)

Ella is right ; there is no one true Christian. A religion is just a set of opinions, and everyone is entitled to their own views.

 

[SugaryGoesRAWR]

Amat Gotchi, and other "Christians". There may indeed be some contoversal stuff in the Bible, but that's because you have the old and the new testament.

Jesus himself says:

"You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also... You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, (Matthew 5:38-39, 43-44)

Also I was reading today in the Bible and found this:

For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.(Romans 1.26-27)

Also please read the verses above. It says on several places in the Bible it's wrong. So even if you would exclude a few, it still says there. If something says once in the Bible, I think it's ok to doubt it. But if it doesn't, it most likely is something quite important. Also (to the Christians):the Bible says not to follow what you feel is right.(Proverbs 28:26)

"Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered."

And so I shouldn't believe any Christian may support homosexuality. No matter what your feelings tell you.

That is not why you heard the roar from the crowd guys

Patrick Lambie jokes aside;

Like Amat Gotchi said

I accept that you are against homosexuality, Stefan. I have no problem with that. What I do have an issue with is that you are getting pretty voracious with this topic and seem to be telling the entire LGBT-accepting Christian population that they are sinning by merely saying it's ok to be gay, calling them unChristian. Lets keep it friendly ok?

My neighbors are faithful believers in God, and are regular church-goers and practice Christianity also - my Grandmother is a strong follower of her Irish roots, she is a Catholic (who I think are a God-believing religion, correct me if I'm wrong)

All of those people are supporters of the LGBT community - and they have not sinned, are 'pure' as I assume people put it, and are all around nice people.

You seem to be extremely straight forward with your opinions - which is great! - but some of them are a little too blunt, and to be honest, kinda hurtful towards those who may be sensitive (only a guess, I don't know anyone here who is actually that sensitive)

Like I mentioned in my first post;

I'm sorry because this whole thing doesn't make sense, I'm on a time limit. Basically, I have a rule that I stick by, and I'm sure others do too - don't judge people by their appearance, race, sexuality or gender. Judge them by their character and how they act towards others.

Your posts are teetering towards the bashing side, which isn't a good thing.

I'm a religious person. And God says pretty clearly in the Bible that gay's are wrong, so a true christian has to be against it. If you don't, you might as well dissobey everything God commands us to do.

For those who aren't religious I find it pretty simple that it's wrong and immoral: It's against nature. If everyone on the planet would live like that, the world would end.

Therefore my opinion is that it's very egoistical and disgusting act. But ofcpurse, to clarify myself, I think the same way about people that cheat on their partner or watch pr0n.

But the fact is, not everyone will be gay - it's actually not a very good argument if we're basing on facts here?

How is it egoistical? As far as I know, the prefix 'ego' basically means self-centred. Last time I checked, relationships - regardless of whether they're homosexual or heterosexual - aren't self-centric to one person. They include both persons and I also recall that LGBT relationships have a better chance of a longterm relationship, while Hetero ones are more likely to split up/divorce

ok im really sorry it doesnt make sense horrible rants nnnoooo

 

[+[ b r u t a l ]+]

People just keep talking and talking about the Bible and religion and God and homosexuality and it never goes anywhere because there are so many flawed arguments on both sides. \:

I'd rather be pro-gay while I'm living and ( assuming He exists ) ask God Himself for some real answers once I die.

 

[Zelly-Graywords]

I've never been against a person's right to love, regardless of their sexuality. If you find any couple who is truly in love and ask them what it was about the other that made them fall in love, and I guarantee if they are truly in love, their plumbing will not come into it.

I am not going to get into the Bible discussion on this because I see it quickly throwing this subject off the topic of sexuality and onto the topic of religion, but I know in my heart that God created us perfect just the way we are whether we are gay, straight, bi, transgender, or whatever. We are still equal to one another.

This is offensive > https://www.tradition...rStatistcs.html

I have to agree with that, especially some of the crimes they list as ones most often committed by gays.

As someone who was molested by a 'straight' man and who has known others that have suffered similar things, I think whoever wrote this needs to check their facts since I personally have never encountered someone who has been violated in this way by a trusted adult who was gay.

I think as a race, if we want any hope of survival we need to learn to love each other for our differences, instead of in spite of them or hating anything that doesn't fit perfectly into our own personal bubble.

/end rant

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

https://www.tradition...rStatistcs.html

People who find this offensive, it are (of course there is a small chance it's untrue) all facts. And I'm pretty sure the author checked it twice, and it's full with different references.

But I've discovered that you guys have decided to stick to your idea and not be changed, probably not even if there would be a new proof from 2012.

But to the Christians, YES, I have right to say if something is so or not so, without saying "in my opinion" before it. Nowadays I'm sick of people saying you can't say it is so, it's just an opinion.

But with the Bible I've proven that it's wrong for a christian to do so. Paul, the one who started the Church, the starter of Christianity wrote Romans 1.26-27

Therefore I will not say In my opinion, I will say(to the christians) that they ARE sinning if they support it. To remain a Christina they will HAVE TO stop doing so. Christianity is not based on opinions, it's based on the Bible.

EDIT:I don't understand why there's nobody on my side.

 

[Famous Last Words.x]

https://www.tradition...rStatistcs.html

People who find this offensive, it are (of course there is a small chance it's untrue) all facts. And I'm pretty sure the author checked it twice, and it's full with different references.

But I've discovered that you guys have decided to stick to your idea and not be changed, probably not even if there would be a new proof from 2012.

I will say(to the christians) that they ARE sinning if they support it. To remain a Christina they will HAVE TO stop doing so. Christianity is not based on opinions, it's based on the Bible.

EDIT:I don't understand why there's nobody on my side.

If they're all sinning it's going to be one great party down in Hell, if it so happens it exists. It seems to be the better place, because if your God really loved everyone, and created everyone in his image, then he would let them live their lives in peace, without being condemned by others because they love someone they do. How is that loving, or caring? I think I'd rather stick to not believing in anything rather than getting my hopes up for an all powerful God that doesn't let you have your own opinions, the way that you make it out to be.

(There is a huge chance that it is untrue, seeing as a lot of statistics are fabricated online) That page you linked us to, is put in extremely derogatory terms, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were in on the whole gay-hating parade as well, if they are calling the gay lifestyle filthy. Could you please explain to me how this is not offensive; "59.6% of homosexuals are college graduates. 18.0% of the general population are college graduates. Too bad they aren't smart enough to listen to God." Is it now right to call people stupid because they are gay?

On a side note, it's kind of sad to be growing up in a world where people still discriminate people based on things like race, sexuality, gender, etc. They're not things you can change, yet they're such a topic of controversy.

'Because God said so' is still not a good enough excuse to effectively bash the gay population in my eyes. As others have said, the bible has many verses that contradict one another, and it may have been mistranslated along the way. Nothing is definite. You can stand, and throw your hateful comments from afar, but by doing that, you are also sinning by God.

Sorry to rant. And also sorry if it doesn't make sense in some areas or there's spelling mistakes it's getting late thank

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

"There is a sense in which God loves everyone in the whole world (John 3:16; 1 John 2:2; Romans 5:8). This love in not conditional—it is based only on the fact that God is a God of love (1 John 4:8, 16). God’s love for all of mankind results in the fact that God shows His mercy by not immediately punishing people for their sins (Romans 3:23; 6:23). God’s love for the world is manifested in the fact that He gives people the opportunity to repent (2 Peter 3:9). However, God’s love for the world does not mean He will ignore sin. God is also a God of justice (2 Thessalonians 1:6). Sin cannot go unpunished forever (Romans 3:25-26)."

That is God's love. He sacrificed his only son so that the sinners here would be able to repent.

Also I didn't read all the comments that were in the link. I looked mainly at some stats. Regardless of what the author says, the stats don't change(unless it's one big lie, but I highly doubt it since he uses a lot reference) .

 

[adamshines]

Hi everyone,

Just a little reminder, remember to try and keep all posts concise, friendly, respectful and with the intention of positive contribution towards TamaTalk.

Many members have already said this, but this topic is incredibly complex and will forever (as long as religion exists at least) remain controversial. We have to respect that Stefan Bauwens is genuinely expressing his own personal belief system and it is OK to disagree with him...just as Stefan may disagree with you. But I also want to remind everyone that this topic is not about taking sides nor is it about convincing others that homosexuality is right or wrong. This is a topic for healthy, mature discussion to share our opinions, beliefs and thoughts on the subject of homosexuality - that's all.

My two cents - homosexuality is not a choice. But I can only speak for myself. In retrospect, I've known about my "attraction" to other men since I was a small child. But society and religion told me otherwise - and that's OK in it's own accord. The human condition is very complicated, which is wonderful because it gives us the opportunity to expand and grow as a species. I see my growth and discovery as a gay man very rewarding. I especially enjoy knowing that all those experiences where people told me, "No, being gay is disgusting. You will go to hell. You will live a hard life and you will be disowned by many." were experiences that allowed me to discover my true self. Now, I can't speak for everyone that experiences such as those were positive life lessons, but I consider those negative words and actions a blessing in disguise. They gave me the ability to love and forgive myself and others with more compassion and less judgement.

There are many people who live their life by the word of the Bible...and they swear by it. I have many family members who do so. And there are many people who practice Christianity in a more casual sense. Others don't practice religion at all and simply live their lives abiding by good natured behaviour. Remember, this is a topic about homosexuality and religion, not about how to be a better Christian or passing judgement on others that they take the Bible too seriously. In my eyes, we are all simply doing the best we can with what we know. And what we know differs greatly from person to person.

 

[Cookie3131]

Being agnostic myself, I don't believe in God, but I respect that others do. However, I think when it comes to things like homosexuality and whether you think it's wrong or not, I think it's important to know that it's your opinion. There are many opinions out there about different religions. There are hundreds (thousands?) of different religions out there that focus on different Gods, or some people believe in something that doesn't even have a God within their religion. Stefan, I respect that you're a Christian and that you believe in God, that's good for you. It's good to have beliefs and I support that. But I find it rude when you take your beliefs in a manner of not opinion or belief, but as fact. The bible is not a fact, it is a belief. For all we know, people a long time ago could have gotten together and just wrote these stories, called it the "Bible" and said "Here, this is how we were made, pass it along". Or maybe it really is based on this powerful being named "God" who's up in Heaven, watching over us and our sins or whatever. But there's no facts. We don't have pictures of what Heaven looks like, we don't have any proven evidence.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that God doesn't exist, because I of course don't know that. But I'm just trying to say that Christianity is a belief, not fact. If it were fact, everyone would believe in it, but it's just a belief like all other religions are. So even though I respect your beliefs, please respect mine by not telling me that Christianity is fact and I will go to Hell for being gay.

You can say "In my opinion" or "In my own beliefs, you will go to Hell for sinning", I'm not offended by that, because that is your belief. Maybe that's why people don't entirely agree with what you're saying, because you're forgetting that this thread is about our opinions on homosexuality and religion, not about stating the supposed "facts".

You may believe that the Bible is fact, but that's just your belief/opinion, right?

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

Cookie, I though I was clear enough, but when I don't use "in my opinion", I'm talking to the Christians. Normally a Christian believes the Bible to be fact, so then it is right for me to speak to them about the Bible as fact. I am allowed to say to a christian, who for examples is stealing, to tell him he IS sinning and not that he is sinning in my opinion.

 

[TamaMum]

Please focus on the subject at hand - sharing views on homosexuality.

This topic is not about quibbling over the semantics of belief / faith / opinion / fact.

 

[Cookie3131]

Well anyway, I think it's alright for Christians to support gays and their rights. My mom who is a Christian supported me and accepted me ever since I told her about myself.

I think if more people (especially those of strict religion) understood homosexuality more than just what the Bible says, that they would accept it more, or at least not judge it so much.

 

[Amat Gotchi]

No hard feelings, Stefan, but a religion is a set of opinions. Different Christian denominations have different sets of opinions, and individuals have other different opinions. To say that a Christian is against his/her own faith by supporting LGBTs isn't quite right, because it's a bit accusatory (no offense) and there are so many Christian denominations and individuals. Many people have the opinion that that linked website was offensive. It's an opinion. That's all I'll say about the subject of Christianity/homosexuality.

On another note, is anyone else a member of "GSA" (gay-straight alliance) at their school? I'm just wondering if it's only at my school or if they have identical clubs at other schools. We gather once a week and eat cupcakes (and sometimes pizza), and the group occasionally stands as an anti-discriminatory group at legal functions.

 

[SugaryGoesRAWR]

aaa i've been thinking exactly what graficks and tamamum have been saying - but i guess that makes me a hypocrite so i won't really focus on it, though they're right!

Sorry for jumping down your throat Stefan D:

However, like I said before, there aren't really 'true christians'???

But yeah, sorry :c

 

[Cookie3131]

On another note, is anyone else a member of "GSA" (gay-straight alliance) at their school? I'm just wondering if it's only at my school or if they have identical clubs at other schools. We gather once a week and eat cupcakes (and sometimes pizza), and the group occasionally stands as an anti-discriminatory group at legal functions.

I believe there's a GSA club at my school as well. Or at least there was. I was going to join it this year, but I haven't heard anything about it.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

Once and for all, Amat Gotchi:

-Christianity is what The Bible preaches? Yes

-Christianity is MAINLY what Paul Preaches? Yes

Then explain me why Paul, one of the first Christians, who God took out to spread the word wrote the following?

"For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error."(Romans 1.26-27)

I those times Christianity was still very strong, much more then now. Christianity is what Paul preached and what we, Christians believe.

You cannot change what has been written, Amot Gotchi. You cannot. This is Christianity, whether you like it or not.

 

[adamshines]

I think this discussion needs a little mediation.

Please remember that this topic is geared toward mature discussion relating to homosexuality and religion and NOT about the definition of Christianity or any other religion. That is a whole other discussion that can be created in another topic.

So please, before you make a post be sure you are contributing only your view, opinions and/or thoughts towards homosexuality and religion and NOT on what you believe is the true meaning of religion, Christianity, the Bible, and so forth. Thanks for everyone's cooperation - we just want to try and keep this topic...on topic!

 

[Dizzie]

I have nothing more to say about religion except there is a reason that I stopped going to church after I was 12. From my experience it spreads hatred, hatred to other religions, hatred to different other life styles and even races. Because of this hatred is why I believe religion should not be part of government, it is too bias.

People who actively tell gays they are bad should rethink their methods. You can believe it is a sin, that its bad but if you're going to actively tell someone they are evil and not welcome in your church or even in heaven, you are not showing any sort of love for your fellow human being or understanding. If you seek to convert someone to your way of thinking, hatred and stubbornness isn't the way.

"I hate who you are and how you think. You should be like me." is not a convincing argument. If someone believes that being gay is a choice (which I dont believe) then why do they shun them and not try to gently convert them? Telling someone they are evil will not magically change their mind to suddenly be fully hetero.

 

[Amat Gotchi]

Christianity is meant to be a source of love, not hate, as Dizzie said. However, it has become a source of hate in many churches, or to many people. It has been twisted, manipulated, used in every way possible to prove points. I think so much of the Bible is figurative and pertinent to older times, as I've said in previous posts. Some books were chosen to be published in the Bible, and some were dismissed as apocryphal and discarded. These were chosen by man, in my opinion there may be some error as to reputability; no one can know for sure. I cannot change what has been written, but there are many ways of interpreting it that vary with denomination and individual person. [slightly off-topic]

But to say something that pertains much more to this topic, the reason, Christian or not, that I support gay marriage and think it should be legalized in the US is that we have the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Whether or not you support homosexuality, one would agree that you should let people pursue happiness by marrying who they want; it's not hurting you in any way.

People at my school are very homophobic. ("Ohmigawd, so-and-so is gay, eeeeewwwwwww!") This is a groundless fear and is most likely why GSA came to my school, to prevent bullying of LGBTs and give them support from heterosexuals as well. Whether or not you support homosexuality, you should live and let live. This means not scorning people who are different than you or preaching that someone is sinning merely by supporting homosexuals.

What I would like to know: Stefan, you said homosexual acts are very self-centered. Why is this? Just wondering.

 

[Stefan Bauwens]

Well, I believe that all churches should accept any sinner, so it is wrong if they don't even give them a chance to repent(basically).

I personally don't go to church myself since I'm not catholic and there aren't any ither kind of churches close.

Also I do not support bullying anybody. And I'm fine with Christians supporting to non bully homosexuals, as long as they don't support the act itself.

Also I believe it's an egoistical act since I don't believe in "born that way". I believe it's a choice, or at least an influence. If your "parents" are gay it will be easier to become gay, since you're born in those circumstances. But I still believe that, besides religion, your morrals will tell you something is wrong. Although you were born with all these influences you still have a choice.

And once you made yourself believe that you were born this way, you still decide, although it's totally against nature, to have sex with him/her.

Therefore, only for your own pleasure.