Legalization of Marijauna

I used to be an old memeber back in '06, but I decided to come back and make this post:

I strongly believe in marijuana legalization/use. Medically, recreationally, etc. I made this post for mature discussions, and to educate. If you make claims, support it with evidence. Not just "My teacher said that its bad for you because..". Theres a lot of misinformation around marijuana itself, and I hope to debunk a lot of stereotypes and myths.

So guys, what do you think?

I respect your wish to discuss and educate members on a difficult and sensitive subject but I think if you strongly believe in the legalisation of the drug cannabis (marijuana) and you want to promote that belief you yourself should start by posting some key facts or claims (supported with evidence).

It would be the most effective way to educate. If you take the time to post some facts and info it will also help debunk some of these"myths and stereotypes" you mention instead of inviting members to post something and for you to jump in and correct any misconceptions.

As for anyone who wants to join this disucssion I am going to remind everyone about the first rule of TamaTalk:

POSTING

1. All posts are to be concise, friendly, respectful and with the intention of positive contribution towards TamaTalk.

That means NO swearing, flaming, shaming, fighting, SPAM, pot stirring or discussion of anything illegal!

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Now, if members want to follow a mature and sensible discussion about the subject I don't have a problem with leaving this topic open (for now).

Just be aware that if anyone posts an example of illegal activity that you (or your friends / family / anyone you know of) have been involved with then you are discussing something illegal and this thread will be closed as per site rules.

A reminder that TamaTalk is a community forum and is open to members of any age (including under 13yrs).

If you want to discuss illegal activity take it to a different site.

I don't agree with it, but I do feel that if alcohol and cigarettes are legal, there's nothing wrong with marijuana being legal- especially considering it's less addictive than both. But I personally don't believe that any considerably "strong" drugs should be legal. They all impair your thinking- including painkillers, even- and they can make life less enjoyable not only for yourself, but for those around you. Once you begin using the drugs regularly, it can make life off of them seem... less real. Marijuana can also trigger 'depersonalization disorder.' I realize it's not the sole cause of the disorder, and I know it doesn't always cause it, either, but it certainly can't help if it's made legal.

When I say that drugs can negatively affect the lives of those around you, I don't speak from inexperience. My parents are alcoholics. They aren't abusive or anything like that- they just down two bottles of wine a night, along with six to twelve beers. After that, it's near impossible to hold a conversation with them, and they get so very annoying. I realize I'm lucky they aren't abusive, but I still can't help but be extremely upset when they're drunk. It just bothers me so much, and I have now decided never to drink, or do any other drugs, because of it.

Yes, them being alcoholics does make me biased... but I still feel that if it can affect me so deeply, it must affect others, as well. So, I don't just think marijuana shouldn't be legal, I believe no drugs should be legal. Or the amount bought should be moderated, so no one can get seriously drunk/high/whatever off of it.

So long as alcohol and cigarettes are legal, however, I see no problem with marijuana. It's actually the lesser of the evils (although, like cigarettes, it is damaging to your lungs... but on the other hand, alcohol is damaging to the liver, so I guess it doesn't really matter which one you choose- you're damaging an organ either way.)

Alright, I am very opinionated on this topic. So here's my 2 cents.

I strongly believe that cannabis (marijuana/weed) should be legalised for medicinal and recreational use.

1. When you think about it, the hushed selling of cannabis is completely irrational. If governments were to legalise the use of the drug, then alot of problems would be solved. For one, there would be no more danger regarding unsafe, unclean product. If cannabis was to be sold in pharmacies, then it would be guaranteed that it would be pure and not harmful.

2. CANNABIS IS SAFE. Do you know how many people have died from alcohol-related deaths in the past year? 75,000 in America alone. Do you know how many people have died from cannabis use in the past 12 years? A mere 26. Scientists have found no harmful side effects as a result of smoking cannabis. In fact, there are many benefits. Cannabis has been found to benefit users physically, psychologically, and even spiritually.

There is nothing wrong with clean and pure cannabis. There is no such thing as a cannabis overdose. Cannabis is much better than tobacco, which is sold openly and legally. *REMOVED TO COMPLY WITH SITE RULES - PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS ANY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY THAT YOU ARE INVOLVED IN*

So really, when you think about it, the intelligent thing to do would be to legalise it.

x.P O K E R F A C E said:

2. CANNABIS IS SAFE. Do you know how many people have died from alcohol-related deaths in the past year? 75,000 in America alone. Do you know how many people have died from cannabis use in the past 12 years? A mere 26. Scientists have found no harmful side effects as a result of smoking cannabis. In fact, there are many benefits. Cannabis has been found to benefit users physically, psychologically, and even spiritually.

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Positive, non-harmful effects of marijuana aside, there's something about filling your lungs with smoke over oxygen that seems like a very lame idea. Inhaling smoke burns and damages the lung tissue, regardless of what type of smoke it is.

Marijuana use can also increase anxiety in those who already suffer with an anxiety disorder. While the immediate effects are relaxing, regular, long-term use can encourage the jitters and anxiety sufferers can develop a dependency (lest they become anxious without it).

(P.S. dubsy check TamaMum's rules and maybe edit your comment)

sorlink said:

It just bothers me so much, and I have now decided never to drink, or do any other drugs, because of it.

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My dad died of alcoholism only twenty days after my 19th birthday (the legal age to drink here). It definitely made me wary of drinking, and I didn't drink for a long time. When I eventually did decide to have a drink, I kept in mind that alcohol should be respected and not abused. His death has made me aware of how dangerous alcohol is, and if anything, has made me more responsible with it. Just like seeing a driver injured or killed while speeding, you learn that hey, it's OK to drive, but so long as you obey the rules and aren't stupid about it.

Point is, I'm not going to let his dumb decisions dictate how I enjoy myself. If you choose to never drink based on your experience, that's totally cool and respectable. Just keep in mind that alcohol might not be the enemy - alcohol <i>abuse</i> is the enemy.

I don't beleive marijuana is any more dangerous that alcohol and tobacco, so I see no need for it to remain illegal. The fact that it is only available through criminals means many people, who would otherwise be law-abiding, end up promoting crime in order to do something they find enjoyable.

If it were sold legally it would be taxable and good for the economy. I do not beleive there would be a negative effect on society, I actually beleive crime may decrease, as dealers leave the streets.

In my honest opinion, alcohol is a far more dangerous drug. It causes violence in some, deadly car accidents, abuse, and long term health effects.

HOWEVER, I do not agree that smokable cannabis is a good option medicinally. Smoking still causes cancer. Doctors can prescribe cannabis in pill form, so there is no real reason to smoke "medicinally". I think it is a violation of the hippocratic oath to prescribe a carcinogen when better options are available.

Unless what the patient REALLY wants is to use it recreationally, in which case they should stop kidding themselves, and not pretend it's to cure them of something.

I beleive that it is fine to have Marajiwana (how ever you spell it) for Medical use. i know little about this drug, but i'm pretty sure it kills pain and is a lot less addictive than some of the other pain killers out there. (just so you know, it has been a long time since i heard of this).

It's spurious and wasteful to get caught up in whether it is fair that cannabis is illegal when other things like alcohol and nicotine are legal. Or that there are more deaths from drunk driving than from smoking cannabis. Or that you've tried it and it never did you any harm… (evidence...? how do you even know…? and discussing it is against site rules )

These arguments don't help a government decide if the drug is safe for us to use and they don't help us judge if it is safe for us to use. The decision to legalise it or not can be taken after the evidence is conclusive.

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• Cannabis has more than 400 active ingredients (fact). It is so complex that it is difficult for medical research to establish clearly its safety or efficacy, so its effects are far from proven or well understood.
  
• Drugs made from cannabinoids - (carefully identified chemical derivatives of the cannabis plant)- are being used in medicine and in clinical trials.
  
• A doctor's medical opinion (or one hundred doctors' medical opinions) that cannabis - or cannabinoids - are safe or appropriate in some patients is not enough to make it legally so.
  
• Medical and scientific evidence will help persuade the lawyers and the governments if they should legalise it or not.
   
  

There are clinical trials to suggest that some cannabinoids relieve nausea and so appear to be able to help reduce the side effects of chemotherapy treatment. So a patient can eat and live normally - although in the treatment of chemo, these forms of cannabis have not been proven to be any more effective than other already established medications.

A responsible government will not consider legalising cannabis or cannabinoids for wider medical use until enough clinical trials have been completed and proved it's efficacy and safety.

There is some medical and scientific evidence in published reports that suggest:

1. 
   
    
2. it interferes with co-ordination, causing problems with balance, walking and driving.
   
3. it affects the ability to concentrate and makes you feel de-motivated.
   
4. It can affect psychological development in teenagers.
   
5. People who use it more than occasionally can become anxious, suspicious and even paranoid.
   
6. Heavy use increases the risk of serious psychiatric illness.
   
7. Users of "skunk" - a stronger and commonly available form of cannabis - are seven times more likely to develop a psychotic illness (like schizophrenia), than people not using cannabis at all or those using the more traditional forms.
    
   

These reports are not fully conclusive and so they are not yet considered complete scientific proof. But if you are a person who already has to deal with any of these situations on a regular basis in your normal every day life, why would you take a drug recreationally that could increase feelings of depression, anxiety, de-motivation?

If you have mild anxiety problems, mild depression or have been diagnosed with the early stages of any psychiatric issues (major or manic depression, schizophrenia, bi-polar) I don't see how you could sensibly risk making it worse by taking something that can produce these documented effects.

There are other side effects of the drug, but they vary considerably and are less predictable, partly because cannabis has more than 400 active ingredients.

I've been a member of this site for quite a few years and in that time I have lost count of the number of members - mostly under 20yrs old who've told us that they suffer with depression (acute, major, manic or bi-polar disorders), anxiety, etc.

If cannabis is ever legalised for medical and recreational use do you honestly believe that it will be available to the one age group that would like to experiment with it the most?! XD

It will still be the lot of teenagers to sneak around trying to get fake ID to make them look older than 21yrs or to get older "contacts" to become their personal cannabis "dealer".

This debate is huge and there's no right answer yet. But I really think it's an important question for younger people to consider - and not to reach a decision without knowing a lot more than can be discussed on a community forum like this.

Edit: Evidence = A lot of trawling through reports on Drugs and Drug Use, Crime Reports, etc. - admittedly mostly UK based, but including respected sources: The BBC (Health issues - Cannabis Use and Issues), DrugScope - the UK's leading independent centre of expertise on drugs and drug use and other reports like British Crime Survey 2010, Guide to Drugs & Alcohol 2010, Findings from the UK National Problem Profile Commercial Cultivation of Cannabis ACPO 2010, blah, blah, blash).

i vote "no" even when its used medically you can still get addicted to it.

but this is just my personal opinion.

we all think differently.

AccioSnitch said:

Positive, non-harmful effects of marijuana aside, there's something about filling your lungs with smoke over oxygen that seems like a very lame idea. Inhaling smoke burns and damages the lung tissue, regardless of what type of smoke it is.

Marijuana use can also increase anxiety in those who already suffer with an anxiety disorder. While the immediate effects are relaxing, regular, long-term use can encourage the jitters and anxiety sufferers can develop a dependency (lest they become anxious without it).

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Well, what is so different about smoke from Cannabis vs. Tabacco? You're still putting smoke into your lungs, but Tabacco is legal in the US and even though it is proven to cause cancer and a whole shabang of other lung issues, they don't stop selling it cause it could kill you. The same goes for alcohol - it can cause a lot of mental issues in the here and now when drank, but it can also cause liver damage and cancer over time. No one is stopping alcohol from being sold either (though try as hard a Utah might hahaha [PS - I live in Utah, I'm poking fun at my own state just FYI...])

Also - have you ever had anxiety disorders and been prescribed medication by your doctor? I have. The meds they give you are pretty bad too. And if you continue to use them they can actually cause more anxiety or a sharp stop in taking any med can cause you to freak out too. You basically become dependent on them too. They aren't really that different.

Nazotchi25 said:

i vote "no" even when its used medically you can still get addicted to it.

but this is just my personal opinion.

we all think differently.

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I'm not 100% sure, but I don't believe there is any actual "addictive" chemical in Cannabis, but I will say from "friends" - that I think it's more the feeling associated with doing it that is addictive. Weather it's a stick it to the man attitude that you get a rush from, or the side effects that you get addicted to from what I hear.... And I'm not trying to down you - you have every right to feel the way you do!

I'm not for or against it really. I feel that even if the Government stepped in, it wouldn't be better really. Right now it's just in a prohibition state like alcohol was in the 1920's - some people just went out to drink just to stick it to the man. Women started drinking in that time too just cause it was like the "cool" thing to do. Organized crime came out of prohibition and exists to this day because of the prohibition on drugs and the like. Of course before alcohol prohibition, people were drinking like 3x the amount that is acceptable today, so some good came of it, but it was also backed by people who were high ups and found that they could make money off of it...

I don't think it will become something mainstream till someone who has money, finds a way to make more money off of it. As far as safety goes - there are plenty of drugs that are used by doctors for patients that are backed by the FDA even though they could kill patients. One of my favorites is used for child birth and doctors give it to ladies who come in to have their babies, to induce labor, and don't tell them all the possible side effects - like their uterus exploding and their possible death. (I can find more on this if need be, just to laxy to dig for it at the moment...)

So do I think the Government cares about our safety? No, not really. Do they want to make a buck here and there? Absolutely.

-Purn

purpurn said:

Well, what is so different about smoke from Cannabis vs. Tabacco? You're still putting smoke into your lungs, but Tabacco is legal in the US and even though it is proven to cause cancer and a whole shabang of other lung issues, they don't stop selling it cause it could kill you. The same goes for alcohol - it can cause a lot of mental issues in the here and now when drank, but it can also cause liver damage and cancer over time. No one is stopping alcohol from being sold either (though try as hard a Utah might hahaha [PS - I live in Utah, I'm poking fun at my own state just FYI...]) 

Also - have you ever had anxiety disorders and been prescribed medication by your doctor? I have. The meds they give you are pretty bad too. And if you continue to use them they can actually cause more anxiety or a sharp stop in taking any med can cause you to freak out too. You basically become dependent on them too. They aren't really that different.

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't believe there is any actual "addictive" chemical in Cannabis, but I will say from "friends" - that I think it's more the feeling associated with doing it that is addictive. Weather it's a stick it to the man attitude that you get a rush from, or the side effects that you get addicted to from what I hear.... And I'm not trying to down you - you have every right to feel the way you do!

-Purn

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I didn't suggest tobacco smoke wasn't bad or was OK.  It's just not the topic we're discussing.  I also mentioned my dad died from liver failure brought on by alcohol.  Both are dangerous, nobody is arguing this.

It's not a topic I'm super comfortable discussing in a public forum, but to answer your question, yes I have an anxiety/mood disorder and yes, I take medications and seek therapy for.  I hope this is enough information for you.

Anything that is done to a point where it interrupts an otherwise healthy lifestyle can be considered addictive.  Heck, TamaTalk could be called an addiction if it's negatively interfering with day-to-day life!

Did it ever occur that people should be responsible for their own actions? Teenagers may make stupid decisions sometimes but they are their mistakes to make. It is not the job of the government to babysit. Maybe parents should step it up if they are so concerned.

There are plenty of better things for our taxes to be doing, than enforcing restrictions on personal freedoms that rarely infringe on ANYONE other than the individual.

Also I think since this is an international forum it would be useful for me to say I do live in the USA. This does effect my opinion.(Other governments may not value personal freedoms so much, and feel they have more say in what their citizens do with their free time.)

AccioSnitch said:

I didn't suggest tobacco smoke wasn't bad or was OK.  It's just not the topic we're discussing.  I also mentioned my dad died from liver failure brought on by alcohol.  Both are dangerous, nobody is arguing this.

It's not a topic I'm super comfortable discussing in a public forum, but to answer your question, yes I have an anxiety/mood disorder and yes, I take medications and seek therapy for.  I hope this is enough information for you.

Anything that is done to a point where it interrupts an otherwise healthy lifestyle can be considered addictive.  Heck, TamaTalk could be called an addiction if it's negatively interfering with day-to-day life!

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I wasn't trying to attack you, just point out other things. And I feel ya in the mood disorder department - I got issues too ya know? I was speaking from experience X_X I was just pointing out the fact that saying that Cannabis "might" be a dangerous substance, isn't a really valid argument against it with tobacco and alcohol also being dangerous. That fact hasn't stopped people from selling it or buying it legally in most places. And I agree with you about addctions, but cigarets themselves are addictive because of a particular chemical that is in them.

PretzelNymph said:

Did it ever occur that people should be responsible for their own actions? Teenagers may make stupid decisions sometimes but they are their mistakes to make. It is not the job of the government to babysit. Maybe parents should step it up if they are so concerned.

There are plenty of better things for our taxes to be doing, than enforcing restrictions on personal freedoms that rarely infringe on ANYONE other than the individual.

Also I think since this is an international forum it would be useful for me to say I do live in the USA. This does effect my opinion.(Other governments may not value personal freedoms so much, and feel they have more say in what their citizens do with their free time.)

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I agree that teens should be able to make mistakes and learn and grow from experience. Part of the reason why though the Government is "Babysitting" is because drug culture is such a taboo that MOST people don't have a strong grasp of it cause no one talks about it or even feels that they can talk about it. In other cultures there are people designated as "gatekeepers" - these people are generally older and more experienced. They can be shawman or wisemen who guide people through the "trip" they have using the drugs.

There are indigenous cultures in America that still have the right to harvest, cultivate, posses, and consume Peyote legally in the US because it is a part of their culture and religion. They have a designated wiseman of their villages to teach them about it and to respect it. (not Cannabis, but another drug that is basically illegal for any other person to use...)

Young teens in America using drugs that maybe they don't know where it comes from, or who is selling it to them really are at risk of being poisoned possibly by someone who doesn't care about their health and well being, they might not know any dangers associated with taking the drug or even what amount to use safely for themselves depending on tolerance/weight/health conditions/etc... That is why the US needs "Babysitting" - cause people aren't educated well enough. It's like what has happened recently with the abstinence only programs at schools. They thought maybe if we teach kids that not having sex is best, then they won't do it. Completely wrong! They had not taught anything about being safe sexually or even about basic birth control. The number of teen pregnancy has risen in the US in the past few years since that program was started. They don't educate about drugs cause they just don't want people doing them at all, but that's not preparing them for the event that it might come up.

Cannabis also is just something that enough people are vilifying cause they don't want it to muscle in on their money. It can be used to make oils, fabric goods (including some pretty comfy clothing that will last longer than cotton!!), paper, a very durable rope, hemp seeds (which are packed with vitamins and minerals), milk substitutes, and even bio-fuels! Think of how many companies don't want cannabis to corner the market on the things they make....

-Purn

*Comment removed. This forum is for any mature and sensible discussions on the topic. *

@purpurn that is a very valid and logical reply, and I would have to agree with you. While I still feel the government outreaches itself into people's lives, I do agree that society does not seem willing/able to educate people on such taboo subjects, which sort of forces the government to step in. Alot of authority figures and parents would rather take a hard-line stance than admit that people are going to use cannabis/alcohol/have sex regardless and educate them.

I believe in the power of education and the ability to inform yourself as to what is best for you. Governments, doctors and many other people who you have no direct relationship with will tell you how to do things a certain way - and that it is the right way. This can sometimes result in dogma: a point of view put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds. While I believe it is important to listen to experts on their recommendations, it is your responsibility to educate and inform yourself as your choices will ultimately affect you in the end. Younger people naturally need guidance when it comes to situations such as these - and that guidance may come from many different sources such as government, counsellors, teachers, parents, advertising, etc. It's important to keep an open mind to these subjects, however, and not to judge others who may do something you don't agree with.

For example - I have dealt with anxiety for many years and know of others who deal with depression or mood related conditions. The majority of those people have medical prescriptions, which in turn, give them freedom from their depression and anxiety that was once controlling their lives. Some of those people cannot function without their medication. Others are addicted. And some only take it when needed. Do you see where I'm going with this? It's about choosing and knowing what's best for you. I was prescribed medication for my anxiety related condition and it worked initially. But the psychiatrist (which is a doctor that can prescribe medication) was adamant that the medication was good for me and that I should stay on the medication long term. When I started experiencing symptoms of dizziness, nausea and depression I knew something was off. So I sought out a natural approach (not cannibas) that others shook their finger at and told me I was wasting my time and money with. I'm free of anxiety and have been for some time now. Education is key.

Foreign substances will always be a touchy subject. But like any substance abuse, they can result in all types of health problems. We are now just discovering that a lot of processed meats are related to certain cancers. Flip through the channels on your TV and you will more than likely come across a commercial stating that certain prescription medication once approved by the FDA (I'm using the USA as an example) are actually harmful to your health. Those people are now suing that company because of their health problems that are a result from this drug. But those people made a choice, they made a choice to pursue a drug that was unknown and foreign to them. Just because "someone" says its safe doesn't mean it is.

There is a flaw in our system of legalization. Be it cannabis. Be it stem cell research. Be it same-sex marriage. Some people may believe that these things are bad for you, and others are completely ok with it. But realize that all of these "bad and good opinions" are pieces of knowledge that give you the power to choose. That, in itself, is far beyond government legalization of any sort.

Stay safe!

*Comment removed. This forum is for any mature and sensible discussions on the topic. *

I believe it SHOULD be legalized. As others have mentioned it should be regulated like alcohol etc. I second what Purn said - lots of actual facts. By the way...it's a plant - it truly isn't that harmful to your lungs. The nicotine and tar are the addictive and harmful ingredients in cigarettes (tobacco too technically but nut NEARLY as bad as when you add in the nicotine and tar...even formaldehyde!) these ingredients are not in plain old cannabis.

Did you know cannabis can also be made into paper and clothes? A extremely renewable resource - we could save thousands of rain forests. It's all about education and responsibility ladies and gents.

*off my soap box*

I'm unsure. It should be decriminalized certainly, and legalized for medical use, but full legalization for recreational use? I'm unsure. Some restrictions would be required, as in Amsterdam. This could include banning public consumption (ex. smoking it openly in the street) and banning the sale of it from unlicensed dealers. A law similar to what they have in the Netherlands, where you can only buy the drug from specially designated "coffee shops" could be used, to remove the risk of shady salesmen cutting the marijuana with much more dangerous drugs. While it is not directly addictive, it can consume people's lives through overindulgence combined with marijuana's psychoactive properties.

Also, tar is produced by smoking any plant material, be it tobacco, marijuana or even mint leaves. It is lying to say that your lungs aren't damaged by it. Inhaling any smoke is harmful. Tobacco is a plant too. Nicotine is the active ingredient in tobacco and is addictive, while THC, the active ingredient in marijuana has less addictive properties. Generally a roll-up tobacco cigarette will cause your body the same amount of harm as an equivalent joint of marijuana. The difference is that the tobacco cigarette will keep you coming for more.